What equipment is good for this type of camera movement?

[Ryan Elder]

Cast Away - Chuck Noland's Monologue - YouTube

However, I don't like using dollies, cause in the past, they would always have vibration, even in the slightest which can ruin a shot. It's cause the tracks go down to the floor, but perhaps there is a method, where the tracks do not go down to the floor and therefore no vibration? Like some sort of slider or a gimbal, if that can do it, or will that just not have the same look to the movement, if I use one of those options instead?

I already know a gimbal operator but I find that when it comes to doing very slow movements, the gimbal does not seem to as smooth for those, unless I'm wrong?

[Paul R Johnson]

Nothing wrong with tracking shots, or ped moves when done with the usual rules.

Decent kit, used on
Decent level support.
Performed by decent people.

In practice, this means that you use a proper studio floor, with studio pedestals. If the floor isn't up to it then you use track, put down by people who understand physics and can lay it level.

Lightweight anything is almost universally bad - so even with the floor/track level, you need a decent head to do the pans.

Remember that sliders and gimbals are relatively new inventions for movie making. Track shots, however have been around since the dawn of the movie and TV industry, and the only reason they wobble is because somebody didn't do the job properly.

You can lay track on bumpy grass in the pit of a festival event and the movement is smooth - because it's done properly.

If you are really saying "I have a $100 tripod with a bodged up running board on my neighbour's children's plastic train track", then give up now. If you cannot afford the right grip kit, then you either innovate, or scrap the shot.

In the studio you might have to ped left, raise the camera and tilt down at the same time as zooming in. Perfectly possible with a bit of practice and the right kit. Ask the same cameraman to do it with a rolling tripod and cheap head on a plain concrete floor and he fails.

Improvise could mean something as simple as a mobility scooter with soft tires and drive disengaged and people pushing while you operate from the side. You could hire one if you can't find a disabled person to loan it to you. if the steering is set to a tighter curve, then you may not even need to pan at all.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I've tried the whole wheel chair thing too, like some suggested, but it makes noise while recording dialogue, so I would want something that is made to be silent.

[Paul R Johnson]

Really? Wrong tyres then. Even a shopping trolley works pretty well if you can fight the casters!

Seriously though - if you can't sort it with improvisation, then it's a hire isn't it!

[Ryan Elder]

Yep okay. Well I already have access to a gimbal operator, so would a gimbal work for that as well with just more practice, or are gimbals not the best for slow movement?

[Paul R Johnson]

Kcan your gimbal operator hold the gimbal absolutely the same height for what, 60 seconds to three minutes, and repeat this maybe three or four times? I doubt it. I can't. Gimbals allow fast fluid movement of the operator in 3 dimensions of travel with 3 dimensions of camera movement within the physical space.

You want horizontal movement only in an arc, very slowly keeping a constant distance. Totally different and the wrong tool.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. So gimbals are better for faster movement, where as dollies are good for slower movement, in most cases?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - we're doing it again?

Gimbals are a relatively new device designed, in a similar way to steadicams, to give smooth movement from an operator who is walking, turning, going up and down stairs - that kind of thing. Dollies are good for different types of movement. Heavier or larger cameras and lenses, operator efficiency and multi-person operation.

Gimbals are good at some things, but dreadful for others. Dollies can move in precise, controlled paths that can be reset and repeated. gimbals tend to be used on wider angle lens settings, where their small movements left, right and up and down are not so obvious. Most cannot, for example, do a very slow pan without jerking. Dollies cannot suddenly speed up and run after the actor.

Like most things - it's choosing the most appropriate tool for the job.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Would a dolly be better for this camera move then? It's the move at 1:10 in the trailer, when the camera is going around the close up of the actor's face:

The Chaser Official Trailer 2008 - YouTube

I would need a telephoto lens for that I am guessing so would a dolly be the right equipment for that move then?

[Paul R Johnson]

2 seconds? I could do that with my camera on my shoulder! I suspect that's a tiny clip of a longer steadicam shot.

Try to stop obsessing on what other people do. Clearly we've established you never have any budget for your projects, so you need to find methods you can use, rather than other people? Are you a one man band? Doing sound, lighting and cameras? Do you have a pool of equipment? maybe a hand held gimbal with a GoPro, or an iPhone on a stick? Maybe a huge cine style camera on a Miller?

Does it matter? You just need a technique you can practice and repeat.

Ryan - you need to stop and think how YOU would approach it.

You said at the top your experience is that dollies and track vibrate. This is like your recent shotgun topic = we don't recognise the things you have written in stone. We disagree with your conclusions, and I suspect that what is happening is you have no skills in an area, try it out, perhaps copying what you see other people do, and it goes wrong - so you reject the process itself as flawed, when it's operator error.

Proper dollies are designed to NOT wobble. If they do, something went wrong. No hand held device will be as solid as a dolly. Dollies, however, are by design difficult or impractical for some shots, so you try a steadicam. however, if we strapped one onto you, your next topic would be Steadicams are no good and wobble and twist, will a hand held gimbal do better. you'd tell us that your experience of them was bad.

Sometimes, you have to put effort into learning and developing physical practical skills. Nothing ever comes free. No product gives first time users excellent performance. Every single topic seems to blame equipment. Can you see the trend in your posts. You want it all. You want it now, and you want it with NO effort, in no time.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I wrote a similar reply but refrained from hitting the post button. It’s a repeat of his last thread but instead of mic booming we’ve moved on to dollying.

His threads could be summed up as “I having trouble replicating a scene made by a movie studio with a million dollar budget...” It’s analogous to buying an expensive pastry and trying to figure out how to recreate it without the skill, knowledge, equipment or money.

He most likely only has access to a gimbal and that’s what he will end up using.

[Michael Stevenson]

This is definitely a Steadicam shot.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh really, I'd be surprised if it was a steadicam shot. I was thinking of getting a tripod dolly for the shots, like the ones made by proaim, but I was told by a couple of others I asked to not waste my time and that they are not smooth enough, but is that true?

[Paul R Johnson]

Somewhere in my store I have an old device very similar, and it's rubbish - except in locations with perfect floors. In the studios with epoxy or hard vinyl level floors they work fine. The real problems are the small size of the wheels and the hard tyres. The larger casters on my vinten portaped work well on parquet or modern timber floors. However, because of the unpredictable action of freewheeling casters you need to plan directions and preset the things. The physics of the system need considering too. Small base, high head produces exaggeration of floor imperfections. A 1mm bump in the floor migh produce a camera lens deflection of 5mm, that with a long lens, can be a big bump.

Bigger casters, flight case style, attached to a much larger platform made from a couple of ¾" layers of plywood would be very sturdy, and with a decent tripod and head, much more stable.

Is the proaim good? Yes. Will it produce stable shots on a poor floor? No. Will a novice cameraman find it easy to use, no.

I'd make one. The cost is insignificant. If you were local you could borrow mine, personally, I'd not miss it!

[Seth Bloombaum]

Consumer/hobbiest camera support is good for learning about camera movement and sometimes gets the shot you want.

But mostly this lightweight and affordable gear is hard to control, hard to avoid vibration & wobbles, and depends less on mass and good bearings and depends more on perfect conditions and a muscular operator who is very good, working in near-ideal conditions, *and* very lucky.

Steadicam - there are many in the under-$1000 range. The good stuff that repeatedly gets good shots with a good operator and cameras that weigh over 2 lbs. starts at around $3000 and quickly goes up from there with camera weight. And, you need a *practiced* operator. Most productions will hire a specialist and gear, rather than just renting gear for their camera operator.

Dolly - as inexpensive as $60 for tripod wheels, such are useful for moving a camera between shots. Up into the low-mid hundreds, you can frequently get a good shot on a perfect floor. $2200 gets you into an MSE Doorway Dolly that gives you 3-person operation (cam op, focus puller, dolly grip) that you need for repeatable results, that has good wheels for many smooth-ish surfaces, and, offers optional track wheels so that it can be rigged anywhere.

Jib - inexpensive jibs are kind of like inexpensive dollies, they can be useful for the occasional overhead shot, but, any camera movement during a shot depends on waiting as the vibration of the boom settles down. And then a move starts it vibrating again. The good jibs start at about $2500.

Does the director have good monitoring for these shots? Might need a wireless link... If the director can’t know what the shot looks like as it’s happening then you don’t have the shot.

There is a substantial culture of marketing cheap camera support that tells us we can create cinematic experience, screen at festivals, and realize our dreams if only we’d buy, buy, buy semi-affordable gear.

That’s not how the working pros do it. They rent, and, they rent the good stuff. If you happen to be working far from the larger cities with rental houses that means shipping, or, adding a cam support order to the grip truck and driver you booked for your shoot.

Pros also plan on any such shot taking 4 times as long to shoot... or more, or much more!