SD card footage only looks good when viewed on TV through camcorder, nowhere

[Richard Hardiman]

Hello all,

Hope this is in the right forum for this post.

I have recently purchased a Sony 4K camcorder (FDR-AX700).

To go with it, I purchased 2 x SD cards (SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-I Card, 256GB, Speed up to 95 MB/s 633X - have taken a screenshot, see attached). When put in the camera, I was prompted to format them which I did.

I have shot footage both in 4K and HD.

I have viewed this footage on my 4K TV by directly connecting the camcorder to the TV (via a HDMI cable). The picture looks great and I am very happy with it.

However.... (there's always a however ) this seems to be the only way where the footage looks this good.

When I downloaded the clips to my PC (using the cable provided, and using Sony memories which is the software with the camera) and played the clips back, the clips deteriorate in quality. Not massively but more than enough for it to be noticed. This is especially prevalent with movement. Its no-where near as smooth. Also, I think the colours are not quite as vivid.

I assumed this was just down to PCs not playing clips as well as a dedicated 4K TV. So, I put it the clips through premiere pro, outputted it matching the source settings, and viewed that on the 4K TV via an external hard drive that I use. The clips look exactly the same as they did on the PC (i.e. not as good).

Again, I wondered whether it was just down to a combination of the clips naturally not looking so great on a PC, and also maybe the quality dropping somehow by putting it through premiere pro (though never had that issue before)

So, in trying to isolate the problem, I have taken the SD card out of the camcorder. My 4K TV has its own slot for SD cards so I can play the clips back directly onto the TV. But, when doing this, the quality is exactly the same as the PC and the outputted footage (not as good). This seems to be the same whether its shot in HD or 4K.

So, it looks as if the clips look great when played on the TV through the camcorder, but when the SD card is played elsewhere, the quality diminishes. So, maybe the camcorder does something when playing the clips back (compresses it somehow) that it doesn't do elsewhere. Or maybe I have not got good enough cards.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I think the camera itself is absolutely fine, but I just can’t figure out why the clips on the SD card (which are digital) would lose any quality when played elsewhere

Many thanks,
Richard

[Dave Baker]

It looks like a TV settings problem. Most TVs have the facility for different settings for each input including "live TV". It suggests the HDMI input you used has more boosted settings (brightness, contrast, saturation etc.) than the SD input, since the pictures look about the same on the PC straight from the card..

[Richard Hardiman]

It looks like a TV settings problem. Most TVs have the facility for different settings for each input including "live TV". It suggests the HDMI input you used has more boosted settings (brightness, contrast, saturation etc.) than the SD input, since the pictures look about the same on the PC straight from the card..

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, this may well be the option. Although, the picture looks exactly the same on the PC as when the SD card is played through the TV (i.e. not as good). It seems like the only (and best way) to view the footage is on the TV directly from the camcorder (via HDMI).

If I import the files to the PC, then play on the PC, not as good.
If I import the files to the PC, and copy them to an external drive and play on the TV, not as good.
If I take the SD card from the camera and slot it directly into the TV (it has SD slots) and play the files, not as good.

its weird - you would think that as digital files, they would look exactly the same.

[John Nantz]

Just wondering, is the SD card a U1 or U3?
Reason for asking, if it is U1 the maximum it will record 4K at is 60Mbps.

[Josh Bass]

I dont necessarily know nothig about nothing but it may a transcoding/import problem...perhaps when you play directly off cam from the card there is some extra kind of file or metadata being read and interpreted that makes everything play correctly, and every other device does not know to read that extra info. There may be an extra step when youre transferring/importing to computer that youre missing. For instance with the C100 you cant just drag the mts files into an NLE and start working with them without major problems...they need to be properly imported and rewrapped. Maybe something like that.

[Paul R Johnson]

Are you sure you are working with the real files and not look res proxies?

Josh mentioned Mts files, and I'd heard these doom and gloom tales, but have never on a Mac or PC found it necessary to (as always dictated) copy the entire folder and file structure. They're always in the stream folder - which on a pc, you just open and copy across to your working hard drive. On the Mac, you cannot just 'open' the folder, it thinks it's a compressed folder, so you need to right click, and then open the location, do the same again and then you can see the real files in the folder. Maybe you're not actually looking at the full res files?

[Josh Bass]

ah. proxies. good call.

as for the rest, fcpx definitely does not like mts files. I just went through this which is why I brought it up. You dont necessarily have to copy anything, perhaps can import transcode right off the cards but Premiere and FCP seem to like rewrapped files in their preferred formats. You can drop in the straight off the card files but your program’s probably gonna choke and hang. That’s been my experience with EX1 and C100 footage which is about all I ever work with.

[Paul R Johnson]

Premiere is totally happy with Mts files just dropped on the timeline - its transcodes them in a short time, and has never been an issue for me with a Panasonic HD camcorder I sometimes use as a locked off wide source.

[Josh Bass]

New premiere? Last version I’ve used was CS6. At any rate FCPX does not like it, perhaps Premiere is more flexible, but I really don’t use that program so not sure.

[Richard Hardiman]

Dear all,

Thank you all for your helpful replies. Apologies that it has taken a couple of days to reply. I will try and reply to each of you here (rather than post multiple replies):

John,
The SD card is a U3. I have attached a photo of the card If this helps at all.

Josh,
Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking (and worrying about) - that somehow I need to action something during the import process (though what is anyone's guess). I have tried using Sonys provided software (playmemories) with same result. I have also found that by putting the SD card in my stills SDLR I can copy the files directly onto the PC hard drive.
What would be interesting is then copying that file straight back to the SD card and playing it through the TV via the video camera. Then I would be able to rule out whether there is an importing issue. I have transferred said file back to the SD card, changed the name from the original so I know which is the one that I have imported/exported, but only changed it by one letter. But, when I open the camera to display all the clips, the new one isn't there (even though its on the SD card with exactly the same info) - isn't that weird. It might have something to do with the XML (every clip also has its own XML) but I have tried copying and renaming it with the new clip name etc, but no luck. Shame.

Ref proxies, please see below reply to Paul. Don't think this is the issue as only using real files.

It is interesting that you mention premiere pro. If I import a clip into premiere pro, it does seem to act a bit odd. For one, the yellow line appears in the timeline meaning that the clip requires rendering. Not sure why this would be as I haven't added any effects etc, just put the file straight into premiere and then created a timeline using the clips properties (or whatever that option is). Secondly, the 4K clips look awful in the clip screen. A lots of distorition.

But I digress. premiere is secondary here. Im just trying to get the raw clips to play properly.

maybe I just need to try HD rather than 4K to see what kinds or results that bring.

New Premiere. Ha, sorry, its new to me (my old verion was cs2.0 lol - I signed up to the adobe package a while back so yes, its CS6 (or CC as they like to imaginatively call it)..

Anyway, thanks again for all your help and useful suggestions, I do appreciate it. Im not sure Ive solved the riddle yet, but think im starting to rule out the camera or the cards as being at fault.(maybe).

Paul,
I am working only with the real files. Before I even started shooting, I removed the option to record duplicate proxy files (didn't see the point). So I don't think that's the issue (but definitely worth the question).

Regarding MTS files, in all honesty, right now is the first time I have heard of such files. I have just looked it up, and it looks like MTS is a file extension for a AVCHD video clip. I am shooting in XAVC S 4K if that helps at all (probably not) but its basically the 4K option on the camera. This is at 2160/25p/60Mbps if that also helps.

[Jeff Pulera]

Good practice for media import with Premiere -

1) Create NEW folder on hard drive
2) COPY entire contents of SD card to that folder, not just video clips, COPY IT ALL (one card per folder)
3) In Premiere, use Media Browser to import the clips, rather than File > Import

There are many benefits to this workflow, won't go into all of them, but that is the way to do it

Thanks

Jeff