Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?

Ryan Elder · February 5th, 2019, 12:59 PM

Okay thanks, I'm going to ask B & H what more about which one l could use be as well.

I was wondering, it was said before on here not to do crash zooms cause they look dated nowadays. I was watching Cape Fear (1991), and noticed how Martin Scorsese did a lot of crash zooms in that movie, so I figured maybe if he is doing in the 90s, maybe it's not so bad.

As for running with a gimbal instead and using a speed ramp instead like it was suggested, wouldn't speed ramps look dated, in the future from now?

Wouldn't a lot of people look back at movies nowadays and say "those speed ramps are so 2010s", much like how people nowadays say "those crash zooms are so 1980s"?

Brian Drysdale · February 5th, 2019, 06:03 PM

The answer is do what you feel is right, it's your film

However, unless you've got a parfocal zoom (as in cine or video zoom lenses) or a varifocal zoom that displays parfocal characteristics, you can't do a satisfactory crash zoom.

At this point, you seem to be going in circles, so, I suspect, the thread has gone as far as it can go in giving you an answer..

Pete Cofrancesco · February 5th, 2019, 07:25 PM

I’ve noticed over the years here and on other forums that if someone asks for advice “I’m thinking of doing X what should I do?” Even if everyone’s recommendation is not to do X, the original poster will inevitably do X. It’s just human nature why fight it you know you want to do the zoom just do it.

One of the most important things you can possibly learn to do is, to find your inner voice and to listen to it.

Ryan Elder · February 5th, 2019, 08:02 PM

Sorry I don't mean to sound stubborn about it, it's just that film riot did it in the video. They crash zoomed with a DSLR lens, and they were able to do it, even though it's supposedly impossible.

It was said before that he was using a lens with a mechanical focus ring and that is how he was able to do it. And I was told on here, that I should just sell my fly-by-wire lenses and get mechanical focus rings, cause it's a lot harder to pull focus on fly-by-wire rings. So if I should get a zoom lens anyway, with a mechanical ring, like I was advised to, that means I can do the zoom after all though as a bonus, doesn't it?

As for the fly-by-wire ring issue I was having. I talked to one person and he said that he has pulled focus on a fly-by-wire with a follow focus before, and it's no problem, and that I must be doing something wrong. Is it possible though, or is it not, and he is just missing something?

Brian Drysdale · February 6th, 2019, 03:02 AM

The answer is to go to the nearest photographic dealer and test the DSLR zooms until you find one that will hold focus satisfactorily when zooming. This will vary from lens to lens.even on the same model, so you will need to test.

I would suggest starting with a Sigma zoom, the Cine version of this lens does hold focus unlike most varifocal still zooms, which won't. https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/12/...m-or-solution/

Ryan Elder · February 6th, 2019, 03:13 AM

Okay thanks that helps! What about what some people have said that you have to pull focus during the crash zoom on a varifocal in order to get it to work? Is that true, or will pulling focus just not work, especially when doing a really fast zoom, where it's just going to snap back into focus anyway, when the zoom is done?

Brian Drysdale · February 6th, 2019, 04:06 AM

It may work with auto focus, but you're trying to do something that will have other factors coming in like human error on the manual focus timing, the lens breathing during the focus pull etc. Also, you may get lag with the auto focus.

Get a lens that you know does the job, everything else is going to waste your time. Test, test test. People claim all kinds of things on the internet and they're incorrect in the claim. There is a handful of still zoom lenses which will hold focus to an acceptable degree, the vast majority won't.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 6th, 2019, 07:57 AM

Like Brian said you can’t make a blanket statement for every lens. Btw, I can do zooms without refocusing on my Canon 70d with 17-55mm lens. This works because you only need to manually focus the telephoto end, the wide will always be in focus. But I’d imagine a lens like a 70-200mm isn’t going stay in focus because of tremendous range and shallow dof, going from telephoto to super telephoto.

Just when I think this thread will end there is another chapter.

Josh Bass · February 6th, 2019, 09:05 AM

Can we rename it “The Walking Thread”? :-)

Pete Cofrancesco · February 6th, 2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Can we rename it “The Walking Thread”? :-)

lol

I would rather see a behind the scenes making of this movie in mockumentary style. Replace the 11 amp scene with whatever an equivalent 11 zoom lens would be.

Ryan Elder · February 6th, 2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

It may work with auto focus, but you're trying to do something that will have other factors coming in like human error on the manual focus timing, the lens breathing during the focus pull etc. Also, you may get lag with the auto focus.

Get a lens that you know does the job, everything else is going to waste your time. Test, test test. People claim all kinds of things on the internet and they're incorrect in the claim. There is a handful of still zoom lenses which will hold focus to an acceptable degree, the vast majority won't.

Oh I didn't mean to imply that I was going to use autofocus, I meant manually pulling focus myself, I was told I need to do, to make it work.

Brian Drysdale · February 6th, 2019, 03:07 PM

I would get a lens that does the job, all the rest just wastes time on the shoot.

Ryan Elder · February 6th, 2019, 04:24 PM

Okay thanks, it's just hard to know what lens does the job, since it doesn't actually on the lens if it can perform zoom when you read the specs and all. I try all the lenses at the store that go up to 300mm and see.

Josh Bass · February 6th, 2019, 11:09 PM

Cant you just email the film riot guys? Youre not trying to contact Spielberg here. Comment on the Youtube vid youre talking about and ask your questions about how they did it/what lens they used, and/or see if they have a facebook page and post there, instagram, Linkedin, etc. Basically pretend youre the stalker in a police procedural and find a way to get ahold of them directly.

Ryan Elder · February 6th, 2019, 11:20 PM

Okay thanks, I can try that :)!

As for focus pulling, this one person who I talked to who is a focus puller on movies, and he said that I can use a fly-by-wire lens as long as the follow focus I use has hard stops. Is that true though? Cause I thought the lens would be inaccurate based on what was said, no matter if the follow focus had hard stops or not. Unless he is right, and that might be a way to use it that would work better for focus pulling?

If I sell the lens I would have to take a hit on the money, so if there is any way I could make the fly-by-wire work when it comes to focus pulling, I'll do it. Not just with zooming but any other shots in general, that require focus pulling.

February 5th, 2019, 12:59 PM	#151
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks, I'm going to ask B & H what more about which one l could use be as well. I was wondering, it was said before on here not to do crash zooms cause they look dated nowadays. I was watching Cape Fear (1991), and noticed how Martin Scorsese did a lot of crash zooms in that movie, so I figured maybe if he is doing in the 90s, maybe it's not so bad. As for running with a gimbal instead and using a speed ramp instead like it was suggested, wouldn't speed ramps look dated, in the future from now? Wouldn't a lot of people look back at movies nowadays and say "those speed ramps are so 2010s", much like how people nowadays say "those crash zooms are so 1980s"?

February 5th, 2019, 06:03 PM	#152
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? The answer is do what you feel is right, it's your film However, unless you've got a parfocal zoom (as in cine or video zoom lenses) or a varifocal zoom that displays parfocal characteristics, you can't do a satisfactory crash zoom. At this point, you seem to be going in circles, so, I suspect, the thread has gone as far as it can go in giving you an answer..

February 5th, 2019, 07:25 PM	#153
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? I’ve noticed over the years here and on other forums that if someone asks for advice “I’m thinking of doing X what should I do?” Even if everyone’s recommendation is not to do X, the original poster will inevitably do X. It’s just human nature why fight it you know you want to do the zoom just do it. One of the most important things you can possibly learn to do is, to find your inner voice and to listen to it.

February 5th, 2019, 08:02 PM	#154
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Sorry I don't mean to sound stubborn about it, it's just that film riot did it in the video. They crash zoomed with a DSLR lens, and they were able to do it, even though it's supposedly impossible. It was said before that he was using a lens with a mechanical focus ring and that is how he was able to do it. And I was told on here, that I should just sell my fly-by-wire lenses and get mechanical focus rings, cause it's a lot harder to pull focus on fly-by-wire rings. So if I should get a zoom lens anyway, with a mechanical ring, like I was advised to, that means I can do the zoom after all though as a bonus, doesn't it? As for the fly-by-wire ring issue I was having. I talked to one person and he said that he has pulled focus on a fly-by-wire with a follow focus before, and it's no problem, and that I must be doing something wrong. Is it possible though, or is it not, and he is just missing something?

February 6th, 2019, 03:02 AM	#155
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? The answer is to go to the nearest photographic dealer and test the DSLR zooms until you find one that will hold focus satisfactorily when zooming. This will vary from lens to lens.even on the same model, so you will need to test. I would suggest starting with a Sigma zoom, the Cine version of this lens does hold focus unlike most varifocal still zooms, which won't. https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/12/...m-or-solution/

February 6th, 2019, 03:13 AM	#156
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks that helps! What about what some people have said that you have to pull focus during the crash zoom on a varifocal in order to get it to work? Is that true, or will pulling focus just not work, especially when doing a really fast zoom, where it's just going to snap back into focus anyway, when the zoom is done?

February 6th, 2019, 04:06 AM	#157
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? It may work with auto focus, but you're trying to do something that will have other factors coming in like human error on the manual focus timing, the lens breathing during the focus pull etc. Also, you may get lag with the auto focus. Get a lens that you know does the job, everything else is going to waste your time. Test, test test. People claim all kinds of things on the internet and they're incorrect in the claim. There is a handful of still zoom lenses which will hold focus to an acceptable degree, the vast majority won't.

February 6th, 2019, 07:57 AM	#158
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Like Brian said you can’t make a blanket statement for every lens. Btw, I can do zooms without refocusing on my Canon 70d with 17-55mm lens. This works because you only need to manually focus the telephoto end, the wide will always be in focus. But I’d imagine a lens like a 70-200mm isn’t going stay in focus because of tremendous range and shallow dof, going from telephoto to super telephoto. Just when I think this thread will end there is another chapter.

February 6th, 2019, 09:05 AM	#159
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Can we rename it “The Walking Thread”? :-) __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 6th, 2019, 03:07 PM	#162
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? I would get a lens that does the job, all the rest just wastes time on the shoot.

February 6th, 2019, 04:24 PM	#163
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks, it's just hard to know what lens does the job, since it doesn't actually on the lens if it can perform zoom when you read the specs and all. I try all the lenses at the store that go up to 300mm and see.

February 6th, 2019, 11:09 PM	#164
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Cant you just email the film riot guys? Youre not trying to contact Spielberg here. Comment on the Youtube vid youre talking about and ask your questions about how they did it/what lens they used, and/or see if they have a facebook page and post there, instagram, Linkedin, etc. Basically pretend youre the stalker in a police procedural and find a way to get ahold of them directly. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 6th, 2019, 11:20 PM	#165
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks, I can try that :)! As for focus pulling, this one person who I talked to who is a focus puller on movies, and he said that I can use a fly-by-wire lens as long as the follow focus I use has hard stops. Is that true though? Cause I thought the lens would be inaccurate based on what was said, no matter if the follow focus had hard stops or not. Unless he is right, and that might be a way to use it that would work better for focus pulling? If I sell the lens I would have to take a hit on the money, so if there is any way I could make the fly-by-wire work when it comes to focus pulling, I'll do it. Not just with zooming but any other shots in general, that require focus pulling.