Mac Sierra Users: Don't Upgrade to High-Sierra - yet

[Boyd Ostroff]

I've read that you can also just install the operating system on an external drive, which will default to HFS. Then you can use Carbon Copy to clone the external to your internal drive. This would take longer, but sounds pretty simple.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I wanted to update fcpx on my 2009 macpro but it required an os upgrade which in turn a different hard drive format depending on the type of drive. I quickly came to the conclusion the headaches outweighed the merger benefits (for me).

[Robert Lane]

Hey if that's the case, sign me up!! Do you have a link to those commands? That would solve one of two biggest issues I have with HS.

[Gary Huff]

Here's one of the guides I used.

How to Skip Converting to APFS When Installing macOS High Sierra

[Robert Lane]

Problem solved!!!

Here's what I did:

1. I used Carbon Copy Cloner to copy my Sierra install which was on an internal SSD in my late-2014 iMac over to an external HDD (spinning disk).

2. I booted from that HDD and went through the High Sierra install routine (took a super-long time).

3. After installation finished I rebooted again into the HDD, made sure the format stayed HFS+ and verified that all my apps were working properly and any new updates were installed. (Apple Pro Apps had an update)

4. I then used CCC to re-clone from that HDD BACK to my original SSD in my iMac.

5. I booted from the internal SSD, verified it was still HFS+, ran all my critical apps (Davinci Resolve Studio 15 being the biggie) to ensure proper operation and, voila!

Now I've got all the benefits of High Sierra minus the annoying and stupid APFS issues.

And the best part? DiskWarrior can talk to and repair High Sierra *because* it's still HFS+ format!!

I'm a happy camper.

[Jeff Donald]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

It's not really optional. It won't convert spinning drives to APFS, but if you have an SSD, you really have to finagle your way around the High Sierra installer in order to get it not to do that. I did it with my iMac, but it's not the easiest workaround.

Internal SSD will be converted. Spinning HD will not be automatically converted, whether internal or external without forcing the update. External SSD will not be automatically converted without forcing the update.

[Jeff Donald]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Hey if that's the case, sign me up!! Do you have a link to those commands? That would solve one of two biggest issues I have with HS.

The other way to go back is to remove the SSD and reformat the drive externally, restore the data and then reinstall in the computer. This is fairly easy to do in laptops, requires special tools with iMacs and Mac Mini.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Jeff, why can't you just do what I suggested above? Install on an external drive and clone back to the internal? I have cloned disks in both directions for other reasons with Carbon Copy. Couldn't be easier. Or is there some reason that won't work on High Sierra?

I think the new MacBook Pro has the SSD soldered to the logic board, so you won't be able to remove that. :-)

[Jeff Donald]

Good question. Apple could turn that method off in the future. Apple could eventually force a check of the formatting of the boot drive at startup and force the startup to be APFS. Folks just need to be aware that things are progressing and changes are coming whether "we" like them or not.

[Robert Lane]

There may be yet another simpler - and not-so-obvious way to avoid the snapshots-from-hell:

From Rob at Barefeats: He noticed that Time Machine is responsible for making all the snapshots (as noted in the articles I shared). If you uncheck, "Back Up Automatically" then it doesn't create snapshots.

And, if you go into "Options" and select the drive you want TM to ignore, this further prevents any auto-snapshots being made.

See screenshots.

For me however, I needed to keep my SSD as HFS+ so that DiskWarrior can fix the directory, should it need it. Alsoft to date still doesn't not have the code to fix an APFS formatted volume. I'm hoping that by the time Mojave is gold that they'll have DW 6 available.

[Gary Huff]

I avoid using TimeMachine all together, just too many issues with it I've seen from others. I would recommend Carbonite or Dropbox, and don't be afraid of just wiping your drive and re-installing your OS.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

There may be yet another simpler - and not-so-obvious way to avoid the snapshots-from-hell:

From Rob at Barefeats: He noticed that Time Machine is responsible for making all the snapshots (as noted in the articles I shared)

I'm confused now, since earlier you stated...

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

The OS-growing issue has nothing to do with Time Machine.

The time machine snapshot issue is not new, it has been discussed for years. But MacOS has been pretty good at freeing up that space when it was actually needed for something. I've been using Time Machine on my laptop for the past 7 years or so and haven't had any problems. I have an Apple Time Capsule and it constantly backs up over wifi. Has come in handy a few times when I accidentally deleted something. But I have a separate Mac just for video editing and have time machine disabled on it.

I use Carbon Copy to make bootable clones of all my Macs as well. I would never actually restore a full computer from a Time Machine backup unless all my other options failed, it's just too slow for that kind of thing.

Since I was finally able to get a fast FIOS internet connection last year, I now have 4 different computers with a total of about 8TB of data that are continuously backed up to the Cloud with BackBlaze as well.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

don't be afraid of just wiping your drive and re-installing your OS.

That was always the standard solution for any problem with a Windows computer... which made me happy that I used Macs! I got my first Mac in 1985 and I don't ever recall having to wipe and re-install the operating system. But I have a friend who does it every few months. For some reason he's convinced that it solves all kinds of strange problems (that nobody else seems to have). :-)

[Robert Lane]

Boyd,

My initial research was skewed; I was digging in the wrong direction. It wasn't until those recent articles posted that I had clarity about exactly how/why the OS was growing.

I never use TM, never trusted it and so never looking into it's preferences, but lo and behold the answer was always right in front of me. Bah... and my ex said I wasn't perfect. Hmmmm....

So this really was never a bug per-se it's obviously intentional and, there's a way around it - thankfully. I'm just glad there's an easy and simple solution; I was beginning to think that Sierra was going to be the last Mac-based OS I'd use! whew...

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

But I have a friend who does it every few months. For some reason he's convinced that it solves all kinds of strange problems (that nobody else seems to have).

Your friend is right. I don't have commonly reported issues both with new OSes and updates of software like Creative Cloud. I see a lot of things reporting on similarly configured systems that I have that I don't encounter. Now, every few months is overkill, if that's what he's truly doing. I only do it for new OSes iterations (such as High Sierra from Sierra).