Nle at DVinfo.net

Daniel Ridicki · July 26th, 2015, 09:56 PM

At the outset, let me assure you I am not into starting any kind of NLE software war her, but for some time I am quite puzzled with appearance of few relatively new NLE options. Three of them, to be more precise. I am not going to mention what are they, just to prevent discussion from going where I have not intended.
So this is my problem. I edit on one of two big software that pioneered computer based editing. I am quite happy with it, but I do have some stability issues I would wish to get rid of. The other "big" name product I find not suitable for what I do. So, I started browsing to see what else is there. Came across three "new" NLE tools, downloaded them all and tested.
What really surprised me is that all of them look great, but features are so limited that I wander how is it possible to edit professionally by using these particular products. First of all, none of them pay any attention to audio tools and options. You can change volume, sometimes pan, and that is it. So, an audio editor is required to complete the job. Which means export, import.... Hmmm.
One of these software does support JKL command???? No way to play backwards. How? Why? Like, I know they want to be different, but being different by abandoning most common command all of us are used to? really?
Let's not go further now, I guess you understand why am I surprised. Now, what makes me wander is: how do that expect to fight for their share of marked sending out there products that are (to be kind) half baked, as oppose to the "big" two? Am I missing something? I mean, should not they give me at least what the "big" NLEs are offering, to consider switching over to them? Any opinion?

Noa Put · July 27th, 2015, 01:05 AM

How do you expect anyone to give their opinion if you don't mention what NLE's you are talking about.

Brian Drysdale · July 27th, 2015, 05:39 AM

Hard to know how to react in that each NLE has its strengths and weakness. It really comes down to the type of work you and the environment you're working in. Individual editors have their own way of taking in the content, sorting the material and then editing it. Some NLEs favour short form over long form, others graphics over narrative.

There is a debate over how much of a Swiss Army knife a NLE becomes. At which point do you move over to specialist software for effects, audio and colour correction, so that the NLE doesn't become bloated and the basic functions slower to use.

Daniel Ridicki · July 27th, 2015, 06:11 AM

It is a valid point. For what I do, I want to be able to finish my work completely. Therefore I find these three editing software lacking what I need to complete what I am editing. using any one of them, I would have to send my audio, graphics and grading to be done elsewhere. So simply - these three are obviously not meant for users like me. Still, not supporting JKL, I find that strange. Thank you for your reply.

Daniel Ridicki · July 27th, 2015, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

How do you expect anyone to give their opinion if you don't mention what NLE's you are talking about.

You are right. My concern was that almost as a rule discussing NLE becomes useless war of devotees. I didn't want to start one. I was referring to HIT 3, Lightworks and Resolve (I know it is first and foremost grading tool).

Jim Andrada · July 28th, 2015, 02:10 PM

Resolve V 12 is becoming more than a grading tool. Whether this is good or bad I can't say (yet) until I try it.

Gary Huff · July 28th, 2015, 02:19 PM

I think the term "Non-Linear Editor" is archaic. Show me an editor currently in use in any significant number that isn't non-linear! It's like saying FWC...four-wheeled car.

Brian Drysdale · July 28th, 2015, 03:53 PM

Thought FWC is the Florida Fish* and Wildlife Conservation Commission or is it the Federation for Window Cleaners? I guess NLE is the term because that's the method used and so fills the brief.

According to Wikipedia.

"The term "nonlinear editing" or "non-linear editing" was formalized in 1991 with the publication of Michael Rubin's Nonlinear: A Guide to Digital Film and Video Editing (Triad, 1991)—which popularized this terminology over other language common at the time, including "real time" editing, "random-access" or "RA" editing, "virtual" editing, "electronic film" editing, and so on. The handbook has remained in print since 1991, currently in its 4th edition"

*Guess those fish don't count nor one of the Cs but that seems to be the abbreviation used.

Bryan Cantwell · July 29th, 2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ridicki

I edit on one of two big software that pioneered computer based editing. I am quite happy with it, but I do have some stability issues I would wish to get rid of. The other "big" name product I find not suitable for what I do. ..... Any opinion?

I'm assuming you're talking about Avid and Premiere Pro?

Or Final Cut Pro and Sony Vegas Pro?

Or Smoke, Edius, Pinnacle, or Corel?

There are more than two "first tier" NLE programs, and they'll all do what you seem to want.

Is there a reason (other than cost, of course) that you're looking at these other programs that don't have full NLE feature sets, and trying to shoehorn your work into them?

Noa Put · July 29th, 2015, 11:24 AM

He was referring to HIT 3, Lightworks and Resolve

Brian Drysdale · July 29th, 2015, 01:36 PM

I should say that Lightworks isn't new, it's one of the original two (the other being AVID).

Daniel Ridicki · July 30th, 2015, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Cantwell

I'm assuming you're talking about Avid and Premiere Pro?

Or Final Cut Pro and Sony Vegas Pro?

Or Smoke, Edius, Pinnacle, or Corel?

There are more than two "first tier" NLE programs, and they'll all do what you seem to want.

Is there a reason (other than cost, of course) that you're looking at these other programs that don't have full NLE feature sets, and trying to shoehorn your work into them?

Yes, I was talking about Premiere and Avid. I was a Final Cut guy but could not accept the X version and migrated to PP. As wrong as I might be, I believe that PP and Avid are on top of the chain. Again, I accept it is my belief and not necessarily truth.

The reason for me looking for other options is that PP export is giving me problems. It randomly brakes during export and I can not find the reason. Other that that, it perfectly suits me.

Paul R Johnson · July 30th, 2015, 05:57 AM

The trouble is that so much software is now 20-25 years on from it's first incarnations, and the features get added bit by bit, taking them in new directions, but gently.

I don't miss JKL, because I've never heard of it! Adobe does what I need in everything apart from audio - and because I grew up on other software, I just don't like audition.

If you fancy a different editor now, nobody really bothers. We're all different.

Brian Drysdale · July 30th, 2015, 06:18 AM

J,K,L are the keyboard commands for play reverse, stop and play forward. These are pretty near standard on professional NLEs.

There is wide range editors available, it's a matter of selecting one that works for you and the environment in which you work, However, you can't always tell this from just looking at the basic specifications.

Have you tried pinning down why Premiere breaks during your export?

Dave Baker · July 30th, 2015, 06:25 AM

Never heard of JKL?

FYI Paul, J runs the video in reverse, L runs it forwards and K stops it. Two taps on J or L double the speed, three taps triple it. Handy, but there are other ways as you will know.

Dave

July 26th, 2015, 09:56 PM	#1
Daniel Ridicki Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 124	Nle At the outset, let me assure you I am not into starting any kind of NLE software war her, but for some time I am quite puzzled with appearance of few relatively new NLE options. Three of them, to be more precise. I am not going to mention what are they, just to prevent discussion from going where I have not intended. So this is my problem. I edit on one of two big software that pioneered computer based editing. I am quite happy with it, but I do have some stability issues I would wish to get rid of. The other "big" name product I find not suitable for what I do. So, I started browsing to see what else is there. Came across three "new" NLE tools, downloaded them all and tested. What really surprised me is that all of them look great, but features are so limited that I wander how is it possible to edit professionally by using these particular products. First of all, none of them pay any attention to audio tools and options. You can change volume, sometimes pan, and that is it. So, an audio editor is required to complete the job. Which means export, import.... Hmmm. One of these software does support JKL command???? No way to play backwards. How? Why? Like, I know they want to be different, but being different by abandoning most common command all of us are used to? really? Let's not go further now, I guess you understand why am I surprised. Now, what makes me wander is: how do that expect to fight for their share of marked sending out there products that are (to be kind) half baked, as oppose to the "big" two? Am I missing something? I mean, should not they give me at least what the "big" NLEs are offering, to consider switching over to them? Any opinion?

July 27th, 2015, 01:05 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Nle How do you expect anyone to give their opinion if you don't mention what NLE's you are talking about.

July 27th, 2015, 05:39 AM	#3
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Nle Hard to know how to react in that each NLE has its strengths and weakness. It really comes down to the type of work you and the environment you're working in. Individual editors have their own way of taking in the content, sorting the material and then editing it. Some NLEs favour short form over long form, others graphics over narrative. There is a debate over how much of a Swiss Army knife a NLE becomes. At which point do you move over to specialist software for effects, audio and colour correction, so that the NLE doesn't become bloated and the basic functions slower to use.

July 27th, 2015, 06:11 AM	#4
Daniel Ridicki Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 124	Re: Nle It is a valid point. For what I do, I want to be able to finish my work completely. Therefore I find these three editing software lacking what I need to complete what I am editing. using any one of them, I would have to send my audio, graphics and grading to be done elsewhere. So simply - these three are obviously not meant for users like me. Still, not supporting JKL, I find that strange. Thank you for your reply.

July 28th, 2015, 02:10 PM	#6
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Nle Resolve V 12 is becoming more than a grading tool. Whether this is good or bad I can't say (yet) until I try it.

July 28th, 2015, 02:19 PM	#7
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: Nle I think the term "Non-Linear Editor" is archaic. Show me an editor currently in use in any significant number that isn't non-linear! It's like saying FWC...four-wheeled car.

July 28th, 2015, 03:53 PM	#8
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Nle Thought FWC is the Florida Fish* and Wildlife Conservation Commission or is it the Federation for Window Cleaners? I guess NLE is the term because that's the method used and so fills the brief. According to Wikipedia. "The term "nonlinear editing" or "non-linear editing" was formalized in 1991 with the publication of Michael Rubin's Nonlinear: A Guide to Digital Film and Video Editing (Triad, 1991)—which popularized this terminology over other language common at the time, including "real time" editing, "random-access" or "RA" editing, "virtual" editing, "electronic film" editing, and so on. The handbook has remained in print since 1991, currently in its 4th edition" *Guess those fish don't count nor one of the Cs but that seems to be the abbreviation used.

July 29th, 2015, 11:24 AM	#10
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Nle He was referring to HIT 3, Lightworks and Resolve

July 29th, 2015, 01:36 PM	#11
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Nle I should say that Lightworks isn't new, it's one of the original two (the other being AVID).

July 30th, 2015, 05:57 AM	#13
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Nle The trouble is that so much software is now 20-25 years on from it's first incarnations, and the features get added bit by bit, taking them in new directions, but gently. I don't miss JKL, because I've never heard of it! Adobe does what I need in everything apart from audio - and because I grew up on other software, I just don't like audition. If you fancy a different editor now, nobody really bothers. We're all different.

July 30th, 2015, 06:18 AM	#14
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Nle J,K,L are the keyboard commands for play reverse, stop and play forward. These are pretty near standard on professional NLEs. There is wide range editors available, it's a matter of selecting one that works for you and the environment in which you work, However, you can't always tell this from just looking at the basic specifications. Have you tried pinning down why Premiere breaks during your export?

July 30th, 2015, 06:25 AM	#15
Dave Baker Major Player Join Date: May 2014 Location: Brandon, England Posts: 459	Re: Nle Never heard of JKL? FYI Paul, J runs the video in reverse, L runs it forwards and K stops it. Two taps on J or L double the speed, three taps triple it. Handy, but there are other ways as you will know. Dave