DL discs as "good" as standard dvd?

[Darryn Carroll]

Hopefully this question comes out right, is a standard 4.7 DVD as good as a DL 8.5? I shot (and have another next week) a dance recital that is 2 hours total. Would certainly be a lot less work to stuff on an 8.5 DL disc instead of my usual way, producing a 2 disc set. A few years ago I remember having a problem burning DL discs but cant remember why. I use Verbatim printable DataLifePlus for my 4.7 and never a problem. I have in stock plenty of Verbatim printable DataLifePlus 8.5 discs for the job.

Is there any reason to avoid DL discs? Could clients have any issues with their players?

Thanks all.

[Gary Huff]

Why do you need two discs for 2 hours of material? 2 hours should easily fit on a single disc.

[Paul Cox]

I Have been using DL for years for Dance Recitals and can say I have never had one come back that couldnt play and I have burned probably over 500 in the last 3 or 4 years or so,

Paul

[Darryn Carroll]

Thanks guys.

Gary: I think I typically set the output to "Best Quality" which only gives me about 1 hour 20 minutes. I have wondered if I lower the quality would it be noticeable....

[Vince Pachiano]

I have burned probably about 500 of those exact discs over the last 3 years, and have had no problems.
As I discussed in a previous thread, I view the DL discs as a poor-man's copy-protection scheme.

At most dance studios, all of the parents have each others email address, and it would be super-easy for a beginner computer user to go to a big-box store, buy a 50-pak of DVD+R and copy away.
Most people, however, are not familiar with the DL, so that may slow them down a bit.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Darryn Carroll

Thanks guys.

Gary: I think I typically set the output to "Best Quality" which only gives me about 1 hour 20 minutes. I have wondered if I lower the quality would it be noticeable....

I don't think it will. I always give DVD-/+R the benefit of being able to handle 2 hours of recording time. I also tinker with settings manually, but ideally I would set the bitrate to fit all 2 hours at around 3.5GB (the rest being for audio, which would be Dolby Digital 2.1 192kps). After that, setting a 2-pass VBR option (if available), and I think you'd be hard pressed to see any issues.

However:

Originally Posted by Vince Pachiano

As I discussed in a previous thread, I view the DL discs as a poor-man's copy-protection scheme.

That is something to consider.

[Shaun Roemich]

I personally won't put more than 70 minutes of video material on a SL DVD, even using AC3 for audio recording. 120 minutes on a single layer uses an average bitrate of ABOUT 4.5 mbps (comnpletely discounting audio encoding). I prefer to use video encoding up around 6.5 - 7 mbps.

[Bruce Dempsey]

Shooting HDV and downgrading to sd for 4.7gb discs allows for 2hrs video
However
Shooting AVC and downgrading to 720 x 480 only permits 1hr or so
In this day and age I feel it's a real bummer to deliver on sd dvd.
I think when giving them the delivery options, the dvd should be something like double the price of Blu-ray because we just have to draw the line and force an end to this dvd lunacy
They will play the DVD and view it on a 42" tv and complain that the video guy does a lousy job..sadly lol
I've begun to offer download as an alternative to dvd and many are buying in.
I render the show to 1280 x 720, put it on mywdmcloud, encrypt the link to a short url restricting the download to one occasion and email the link
.They don't end up with Blu-Ray quality but it's a damn sight better quality than DVD plus the bonus of no disc or postage!!

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

Shooting HDV and downgrading to sd for 4.7gb discs allows for 2hrs video
However
Shooting AVC and downgrading to 720 x 480 only permits 1hr or so

I have no idea where that impression comes from. DVD data rates are solely due to the bitrate of the compression chosen (either by the operator or by the software, if automated). I use Compressor on Mac to encode MPEG-2 media with AC3 audio to author in DVD Studio Pro. I try to maintain bitrates as close to the maximum guaranteed playable bitrate of DVD which is arbitrarily 8mbps.

[Bruce Dempsey]

The 'Impression" is based on experience ...lots of it I might add (I've bought a skid or two of blank media in my time) but back in the day I used hardware rather than software to manage the encoding to dvd. thus the difference.
This whole DVD discussion is pointless. The only discussion we should be engaged in is how do we extract ourselves from this pitiful process of delivering sd. It doesn't matter what the process or bitrate because sd is crap and we (collectively) as a working group of videographers must simply stop pandering to their ill advised requests for dvd. Why do you think they ask for dvd?..because we ask them if they want dvd duh what are we thinking??.
They (the villagers who support us) are depending on us professionals to lead them out of the dim and blurry world of sd into the glorious light and clarity of modern video.
They watch fantastic quality cable/online/offair TV on their fine gear then they get a dvd featuring their children dancing and it's sd on a dvd and it's crap crap crap. unless it's avchd on dvd.
Really try hard to offer better alternatives for delivery. It will payoff

[Jeff Pulera]

I must be doing something wrong then, because my 2-hour DVDs look like HD when I watch them on a 60" plasma.

Jeff Pulera

[Roger Van Duyn]

I honestly can not see a difference between the same commercial movie on dvd and blue ray on my 42 inch LCD tv sitting across the room. Maybe if I park myself right in front of the tv. But my mother told me not to do that as a kid.

[Gary Huff]

I easily can on my 42" plasma, and it's only 720.

[Matt Thomas]

I need to test this out, because I've always aimed for a Bit Rate of 6 - 8 and that never allows me more then an hour and 15 minutes on a disc usually, but perhaps I could squeeze 2 hours and have reasonable looking footage?

[Jeff Pulera]

Search online for "Bitrate calculator" or use the formula 560/minutes = bitrate (just round down result a little for safety margin).

Everyone has their own opinion, and they are entitled to it, but coming up with arbitrary rules such as "70 minutes max" on a DVD don't make a lot of sense to me. Quality is dependent on many factors, including source quality, encoder quality, settings used, viewing setup, etc. and I commonly create DVDs of 2 to 2.5 hours and have never had a complaint from a client about quality, and I'm also pretty fussy myself and would not put out these DVDs if I thought they looked bad.

So do your own testing and decide for yourself how much you want to put on a DVD and don't take what I, or anyone says, as gospel. There is no one-size-fits-all for DVD length. A talking head video will look better at low bitrate than a sports video with fast action. All depends what you are working with.

Regards,

Jeff Pulera