Black level question... at DVinfo.net

Kell Smith · March 26th, 2014, 10:57 PM

So...
I edited a project, burned a DVD, and viewed it on my Vizio TV.
Through the DVD player to the TV, black levels were washed out through players on both HDMI and Component.
When the iso file was viewed through the Macbook to the TV (HDMI), black levels looked fine.
When the DVD playing in the Superdrive was hooked to the TV, black levels were fine.
The TV, when viewed through cable, is fine, so it's not washed out in general
Yet the DVD viewed to the TV was washed out.
Why? And how can I correct for this when editing?

**On a (maybe related, maybe not) note, I've noticed that my nx5u hooked to the TV via HDMI is sometimes washed out as well. I haven't hooked it up enough to know if that's true for all recordings, just a recent one (not the same one as on the DVD). I haven't had time to troubleshoot this one yet, just putting it out there for information).

thx in advance =)

Christopher Young · March 28th, 2014, 08:00 AM

Sounds like the old 16-235 levels vs the 0-256 levels. Computers, unless using specific player software with adjustable output level settings, will normally output blacks at 0 and whites at 255. DVD and BD players and TV are designed to accept in and adjust the output to the normal TV broadcast narrow gamut signal which is blacks at 16 and whites at 235. Hence images look less contrasty on the TV. Blacks are greyer and whites not so sparkling.

A tricky levels situation in reality. Check the following link if you want to know a great deal more in depth detail. Look for the sixth post by a Stephen Neal that starts with:

"Here's some (slightly abridged) background that might be useful for people new to this area."

He has put together one of the simplest but clear summaries I've seen on the issues involved.

The Pixel Format and Video Dynamic Range settings thread | AVForums

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Battle Vaughan · March 28th, 2014, 11:11 AM

Interesting discussion of IRE levels here, may shed some light: DV and DVD Black Levels Part 2

Kell Smith · March 28th, 2014, 05:03 PM

Thanks guys, I'll check those out.
How do you mitigate for this in your projects?

March 26th, 2014, 10:57 PM	#1
Kell Smith Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 436	Black level question... So... I edited a project, burned a DVD, and viewed it on my Vizio TV. Through the DVD player to the TV, black levels were washed out through players on both HDMI and Component. When the iso file was viewed through the Macbook to the TV (HDMI), black levels looked fine. When the DVD playing in the Superdrive was hooked to the TV, black levels were fine. The TV, when viewed through cable, is fine, so it's not washed out in general Yet the DVD viewed to the TV was washed out. Why? And how can I correct for this when editing? **On a (maybe related, maybe not) note, I've noticed that my nx5u hooked to the TV via HDMI is sometimes washed out as well. I haven't hooked it up enough to know if that's true for all recordings, just a recent one (not the same one as on the DVD). I haven't had time to troubleshoot this one yet, just putting it out there for information). thx in advance =)

March 28th, 2014, 08:00 AM	#2
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,572	Re: Black level question... Sounds like the old 16-235 levels vs the 0-256 levels. Computers, unless using specific player software with adjustable output level settings, will normally output blacks at 0 and whites at 255. DVD and BD players and TV are designed to accept in and adjust the output to the normal TV broadcast narrow gamut signal which is blacks at 16 and whites at 235. Hence images look less contrasty on the TV. Blacks are greyer and whites not so sparkling. A tricky levels situation in reality. Check the following link if you want to know a great deal more in depth detail. Look for the sixth post by a Stephen Neal that starts with: "Here's some (slightly abridged) background that might be useful for people new to this area." He has put together one of the simplest but clear summaries I've seen on the issues involved. The Pixel Format and Video Dynamic Range settings thread \| AVForums Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

March 28th, 2014, 11:11 AM	#3
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Re: Black level question... Interesting discussion of IRE levels here, may shed some light: DV and DVD Black Levels Part 2

March 28th, 2014, 05:03 PM	#4
Kell Smith Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 436	Re: Black level question... Thanks guys, I'll check those out. How do you mitigate for this in your projects?