Would you buy a used EX3 (or any camera) used off Ebay?

[Don Bloom]

Joe, put me down for 2 at that price! lol...yeah the scammers and scumbags are out there. Be careful but with some due diligence, you should come up with a REAL one!

[Trevor Dennis]

Just wondering how folk are seeing that eBay listing as a scam? That price reflects the current bidding, after 11 bids (as I type this) and it will undoubtedly reach realistic figures by the time it closes on the 3rd. I don't know eBay well enough to see if there is a reserve, but there will surely be one. The seller has 100% feedback on multiple sales, so I am not entirely sure why this is a problem sale?

The only thing that catches my eye is the claim for the item to be unused and unopened. How did they take the pictures?

[Kris Zimbelman]

I tried to "reverse catfish" this guy. He had some high end speakers for sale with a buy It now price of, you guessed it, $2500. He mentioned in the ad strangely enough that he would prefer to have someone come and pick them up due to their weight and size. So I sent him a message and asked him what city and state he lived in. Notice, I did not ask him for his address, just a geographic location. He refused to release this information. I noticed some other really nice things on his site does seem to Good to be true. Including an $11,000 bicycle for a buy it now price of... $2500.

By the way, the reason that I asked the question regarding the most expensive repair one could encounter on a camera like this, is that I have considered purchasing used cameras on eBay before. If they are like mine VX 2000, there are reputable camera shops that will repair it for $650, irrespective of what's wrong with it (unless it's been dropped on its lens)

[Robert Bale]

Not sure why all the fuss, I just picked up a ex1, as a 3rd camera, 175hr, paid with pay pal all good, so i say got for it and pay with pal pal they give you piece of mind if its a scam your will get your money back. BTW, $1450 for the ex1. Very happy.

[Joe Holt]

Originally Posted by Trevor Dennis

Just wondering how folk are seeing that eBay listing as a scam? That price reflects the current bidding, after 11 bids (as I type this) and it will undoubtedly reach realistic figures by the time it closes on the 3rd. I don't know eBay well enough to see if there is a reserve, but there will surely be one. The seller has 100% feedback on multiple sales, so I am not entirely sure why this is a problem sale?

The only thing that catches my eye is the claim for the item to be unused and unopened. How did they take the pictures?

If you go and look up the seller's feedback will notice that out of over 11,000 transactions, not one item is a piece of electronic or photographic equipment let alone a professional camcorder. In fact, the items the original seller has sold were cutesy trinkets that sell for less than $10. My suspicion is that this is a legitimate seller and the scammer has figured out how to hack into a legitimate account. I found another questionable listing selling a EX1 which looked and sounded completely legit. About 250 transactions with 100% rating but I noticed that all the transactions were the same and not for anything remotely related to video, film or photography. My guess is the scammers look for legitimate sellers who have high approval ratings but haven't had much activity in the past 6 months. They hack in (only need to figure out a password to do that as user name is right there on the screen) and post up as many big ticket items as possible. They get their product photos from google image search and just wait for someone to contact them. I think if you bid through ebay and pay using PayPal, you should be safe as there are too many levels of protection but if you send money directly to the scammer, you're out the money.

I reported all of the fishy listings I have found so far and so far, Ebay hasn't done anything about them as they are still up.

OH BTW search "Sony EX3" in ebay and you'll see that there are two identical listings with exact same photo but from two different sellers! How dumb can we be?

[Glen Vandermolen]

Another bit of advice:

If you see a too-good-to-be-true Ebay ad - or any place that sells - that has pics, do a Google or Yahoo search for images of that same item. Example, an EX3. If you find the same pics of the for-sale item from another source, then the "seller" stole the pics to make their fake ad.

I've caught a fake ad that way before.

[Dave Blackhurst]

@ Trevor -

Joe pretty well covered "how to spot a scam listing online" -

1. Check account history - no recent feedback or only FB for low $ "unusual" items, and now is listing high $ "hot" items (scammers know what brings big $$). This usually indicates a "hacked" account, or sometimes a legit seller in a "triangulation" drop ship scam (seller does not have item, and sends money to 3rd party who either just steals the money, or ships using a stolen CC #).

2. The image block of "text" (that image block is used to avoid text search spiders) with an email address and an offer to "buy directly" for a rediculous amount is a prohibited solicitation to send your friendly neighborhood scammer (probably in Russia or Romania, but other places are getting up to speed too) a wire transfer, which leaves the buyer with ZERO protection... you should just send the Nigerian prince your money if you're that dumb... usually he promises bigger bucks...

3. There are PLENTY of pictures available on the web - "scraped" from eBay or other sites (I've had images stolen on eBay and used elsewhere...). If there are a lot of listings, usually the photos won't "match" as they are collected from various places.

4. If you communicate with the "seller", they will be very "sketchy" about any details, very few are really "clever" and usually you will notice fairly quickly that something isn't right (and they keep asking you to send a wire or money order). There ARE exceptions, I ran across a very slick US based scammer years ago, who was 100% knowledgeable about how eBay and PayPal worked, along with the US "systems", and was articulate - he or she was using second chance offers to multiply their returns...


As far as being "covered", yes eBay and PayPal "have your back" as long as you follow their RULES - you send a wire or MO, you are SOL... You will have to go through a claims process, and not have your funds for a while, even if you follow all the rules... And it's ALWAYS better to also use a CC that will give you an added layer of fraud protection (again, amke sure you follow their rules/claims process if eBay/PP fails you for some reason)


@ Kris -

You can buy everything from cameras that are working perfectly to "dunkin' specials" that have (sometimes SEAWATER) water damage. Most of the time you'll have damaged cameras listed as "as-is or for parts" if there are issues. But sometimes you run into someone who "overstates" the condition - this is where (good) pictures are helpful, and knowing how to evaluate the description/seller. People are people - be wise in who you "deal" with.

As far as "the most expensive repair" - this question is the same as "how big is a rock?" - it can vary A LOT. A "mainboard" typically will cost almost as much as a new camera... parts are ALWAYS expensive, and any repair cost will hinge on what is wrong... over the years I've seen (and sometimes bought) cameras with cosmetic damage and good "guts", and others flooded with unusable innards, and nearly pristine external condition... you have to know your stuff if a camera is anything other than 100% "working", and be able to test all the functions when a working one comes in!

[Kris Zimbelman]

Your comment on the main board costing as much as the entire camera will make me look at Panasonic's more closely if they still have that three-year register it online warranty. I would also have to give consideration to the B and H 3 or 5 year drop and spill protection.

[Rick L. Allen]

I would never use Ebay for a purchase like this. As others have suggested try B&H's used listings, Allied Broadcast Group - Allied Broadcast Group - used video production trucks, video production truck equipment, HD studio camera packages, SD studio camera packages, broadcast video switchers, Media Concepts, Media Concepts - broadcast video switchers, broadcast video switcher, new video equipment, production truck cameras, production truck camera, professional video equipment brokers, professional video equipment broker, video production truck equipment,, etc. They are reputable companies that buy, sell & broker for & with pro's so you are far less likely to be dealing with an eBay scammer.

The EX1 & EX3 are the same camera internally. The EX3 has an interchangeable lens, the EX1 doesn't. And remember a good 1/2 lens for an EX3 will cost more than an EX1 or EX3.

[Joe Holt]

Thanks to everyone for posting up their ideas and insights. I almost bought an EX3 off Ebay but not until I had contacted the seller and exchanged enough communications until I was convinced he was the real deal. Funny thing is I got beat out by someone else at the last minute because I was off shooting a ball game and couldn't follow the auction to the end. I am happy that I didn't win the auction as now I'm completely rethinking my camera choice. With NAB going on right now, I've decided to wait and see what new and exciting toys will be released and see how that affects the prices. I am currently considering a NEX FS100 with B&H selling them new at $4500 with the kit lens. I was going to spend at least $5500 on a used EX3 with accessories and so I decided to see how much camera and accessories I could get for the same $5500 - $6000. Thanks again. Joe

[Josh Bass]

Almost a year after the last post here. . .what do we think about this topic? I realize I posted early on in thread bein' all "no way, man", but I just had a late night gig scramble (seriously, 11pm call for gig the next morning!) and I am getting quite sick of this nonsense.

On the other hand, EX1r's (the cam I'm mostly considering) are all over the place on ebay, going from $2000-$4000+ with the same condition, accessories, etc., and all the bonafied/legit places are more in the $4000+ range for used packages, usually without cards etc.

[Garrett Low]

Josh, I wouldn't buy a camera off of eBay. Too many risks. But, if you are interested I've got an EX3 package for sale. A good well taken care of used camera should not give you any problems. I know a few people who have purchased used EX1's or EX3's from reliable sellers without problems.

Here's the link. Let me know if you're interested or have any questions in general.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/private-...x3-extras.html

Thanks,
Garrett

[Josh Bass]

Thanks. That's a little more than I'm looking to spend, and also I know many folks love the EX3 but I've started to hate working with the XL2 the last few years (the camera I'm replacing) so I'd prefer to stay away from something with that form factor.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Josh -

The used camera "market" is suffering the same as the new camera market, so prices can be all over the place! There are good deals that pop up If you know what you're looking for and are patient, decent deals pretty much all the time (although you don't see as much "nearly new" high end gear on ebay as you used to - fewer front end sales mean fewer/no "resales"), and of course you can ALWAYS pay retail or close to it!

For me, the savings is worth buying "used" or "open box return" when I can. BUT I also know how to buy and sell and evaluate listings/sellers/gear quickly, and how to stay protected if something does go wrong with a transaction. And I'm not afraid of handling routine mechanical and electronic repairs if they arise!

If you have a model you're focused on, you can watch the listings a number of different ways, and just wait until the price you can't refuse comes up. Make sure you review the listing for any "gotchas", check the feedback, communicate with the seller to confirm they are legit, you should be fine.

FWIW, the scammers sometimes show up with "high end" listings (hey, scammers will try to scam any way they can), but it is a lot less frequent than it used to be. Ebay is hard enough to make any money when you're a legit seller, and with all the anti-fraud things they've put in, scammers have it harder than they used to. Of course all the "anti fraud" measures (that ALSO make it hard on legit sellers) have resulted in many people no longer selling on ebay, so the "stock" is a bit thin for that reason as well!

[Josh Bass]

Yeah, I use ebay sporadically but I have noticed it's mostly stores now, not so much individuals selling their own stuff, which is sad 'cause who cares about buying something from a retail place via ebay?

Anyway, scammers aside, I just had an epiphany that the more sophisticated (and irreplaceable in the workflow) the piece of gear, the more likely it is to screw you and ruin your day/career. Lights? not much that can go wrong, by 'em used, what the hell.

Mics? A little scary, still doable.

Cameras? Ok hold the phone, Chachi. So I will still look for used but will probably go with a more established place that vets their gear like B&H or a few other recommended places, rather than ebay. Even if not a scam, could still be God knows what wrong with it.