using HD and SD together - question

Noa Put · May 25th, 2012, 02:34 PM

A semi shoulder mount like a xl2 or a xlh1 are equally worse to handhold compared to a xh-a1. You only get more stability since you have an extra point against your shoulder but a lot of the wheight is still mainly in your hands. This also means that any attempt to flip some switches on the side or even zoom, adjust iris or focus in a live event can result in a small wobble in your image, just like with any handicam type of camera.

It's only a lot easier to add additional batteries or wheight onto the back of the camera to distribute the wheight better and make it act more like a real shouldercam but just standard you can't handhold it for extended periods. With a real shouler mount camera that's all not an issue.

Les Wilson · May 25th, 2012, 03:38 PM

I disagree. The stock XL only barely reaches the shoulder but it does reach it while simultaneously, the VF is on your face adding and additional point of stability. When you add MA-100 XLR adapter, the camera is more on your shoulder and bequeaths the benefits there-in. Even on a Spiderbrace or other shoulder rig, the proper forward mounted VF of the XL is superior for handheld than a handycam like the A1 on a shoulder brace with 100% of it's weight on your arms and no point of stability on your face.

Noa Put · May 25th, 2012, 10:26 PM

If you push a xlh1 against your shoulder, and then let go, what happens? It immediately drops to the ground like a brick, well, that's the weight you have to carry in your hands. I have had the honor of shooting with a xl2 years ago and it was as heavy and uncomfortable to hold as my xh-a1 and also like I said, once you start adding stuff to the back of the camera the wheight distribution is better but not like a real shoulder mount camera (unless you add that much wheight it almost balances if you let go) and like I said, you have more contactpoints to your body making it a bit more stable to film, on a xha1 you also have the viewfinder against your eye, with the xl type of camera the shoulder is an extra point. A xl2 type of camera can more easily be transformed to look and behave like a real shouldercam but a standard version will put as much strain on your arms as any handicam, unless your Schwarzenegger, he probably would disagree :)

Les Wilson · May 26th, 2012, 05:31 AM

Nobody claimed an XL1 is balanced on the shoulder. It's just better than a handycam. The OP used XL1 then XL2 (which has the optional shoulder pad builtin). It doesn't have to balance on your shoulder to be better than a handycam. With the semi-shoulder form factor of the XL, EX3 and the JVC, some weight goes on your shoulder and there are 2 points of contact. On a handycam like the A1, no weight goes on the shoulder and you have zero points of contact. Using the rear VF to get one point of contact is (IMHO) worse as it pushes all the weight further forward.

Jay West · May 26th, 2012, 10:27 AM

As interesting as this exchange has been, it may not matter for the OP. According to his new thread, his non-profit has been using the XL cams with "heavy tripods" and he is now looking at getting a Panasonic AC130, which seems to put them in the non-shoulder mount camp. He is looking for recommendations for a "B" cam whose footage can match reasonably well with the AC130. See this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...-my-needs.html

Les Wilson · May 26th, 2012, 11:29 AM

I had suggested the AC-130 a while back. Others moving off of XL cameras will read this thread and benefit from the discussion.

Jay West · May 26th, 2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson

I had suggested the AC-130 a while back. Others moving off of XL cameras will read this thread and benefit from the discussion.

Agreed. Sorry if my comment came across as critical. No criticism was intended.

May 25th, 2012, 02:34 PM	#16
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: using HD and SD together - question A semi shoulder mount like a xl2 or a xlh1 are equally worse to handhold compared to a xh-a1. You only get more stability since you have an extra point against your shoulder but a lot of the wheight is still mainly in your hands. This also means that any attempt to flip some switches on the side or even zoom, adjust iris or focus in a live event can result in a small wobble in your image, just like with any handicam type of camera. It's only a lot easier to add additional batteries or wheight onto the back of the camera to distribute the wheight better and make it act more like a real shouldercam but just standard you can't handhold it for extended periods. With a real shouler mount camera that's all not an issue.

May 25th, 2012, 03:38 PM	#17
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: using HD and SD together - question I disagree. The stock XL only barely reaches the shoulder but it does reach it while simultaneously, the VF is on your face adding and additional point of stability. When you add MA-100 XLR adapter, the camera is more on your shoulder and bequeaths the benefits there-in. Even on a Spiderbrace or other shoulder rig, the proper forward mounted VF of the XL is superior for handheld than a handycam like the A1 on a shoulder brace with 100% of it's weight on your arms and no point of stability on your face. Last edited by Les Wilson; May 26th, 2012 at 05:53 AM.

May 25th, 2012, 10:26 PM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: using HD and SD together - question If you push a xlh1 against your shoulder, and then let go, what happens? It immediately drops to the ground like a brick, well, that's the weight you have to carry in your hands. I have had the honor of shooting with a xl2 years ago and it was as heavy and uncomfortable to hold as my xh-a1 and also like I said, once you start adding stuff to the back of the camera the wheight distribution is better but not like a real shoulder mount camera (unless you add that much wheight it almost balances if you let go) and like I said, you have more contactpoints to your body making it a bit more stable to film, on a xha1 you also have the viewfinder against your eye, with the xl type of camera the shoulder is an extra point. A xl2 type of camera can more easily be transformed to look and behave like a real shouldercam but a standard version will put as much strain on your arms as any handicam, unless your Schwarzenegger, he probably would disagree :)

May 26th, 2012, 05:31 AM	#19
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: using HD and SD together - question Nobody claimed an XL1 is balanced on the shoulder. It's just better than a handycam. The OP used XL1 then XL2 (which has the optional shoulder pad builtin). It doesn't have to balance on your shoulder to be better than a handycam. With the semi-shoulder form factor of the XL, EX3 and the JVC, some weight goes on your shoulder and there are 2 points of contact. On a handycam like the A1, no weight goes on the shoulder and you have zero points of contact. Using the rear VF to get one point of contact is (IMHO) worse as it pushes all the weight further forward.

May 26th, 2012, 10:27 AM	#20
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: using HD and SD together - question As interesting as this exchange has been, it may not matter for the OP. According to his new thread, his non-profit has been using the XL cams with "heavy tripods" and he is now looking at getting a Panasonic AC130, which seems to put them in the non-shoulder mount camp. He is looking for recommendations for a "B" cam whose footage can match reasonably well with the AC130. See this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...-my-needs.html

May 26th, 2012, 11:29 AM	#21
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: using HD and SD together - question I had suggested the AC-130 a while back. Others moving off of XL cameras will read this thread and benefit from the discussion.