Commercials

Bob Costa · September 6th, 2005, 07:59 PM

I just got the specs for a commercial I am producing, but would like some help:

:30 seconds of bars and tone
:10 seconds of slate
:2 seconds of black
commercial
:5 seconds of black at the end

I understand all of that but:

1. How can I generate tone? What level do I set it at, relative to the audio in the commercial?

2. What bars should I use? The ones that the NLE (Vegas) generates, or the ones I captured from the camera?

3. Can someone point me at a ten second slate I can use (thats a countdown timer, right??)

George Ellis · September 7th, 2005, 03:59 AM

Did a little dogpile search... sort through "test tone .wav" for the tone ;)

For $50
http://www.itworks.com/products/ntsc-ref.htm

Jay Gladwell · September 7th, 2005, 06:09 AM

1. How can I generate tone? What level do I set it at, relative to the audio in the commercial?

Vegas generates the proper tone at the proper level.

2. What bars should I use? The ones that the NLE (Vegas) generates, or the ones I captured from the camera?

Use the SMPTE bars in Vegas.

3. Can someone point me at a ten second slate I can use (thats a countdown timer, right??)

The "slate" is the color bars with the tone. Then there is a visual countdown, usually of 10 seconds total (make your own in Vegas). Following the countdown there is usually 2 seconds of black, followed by the commercial.

Bob, what version of Vegas are you using?

Jay

Glenn Chan · September 7th, 2005, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Vegas generates the proper tone at the proper level.

Yes and no.

Pro digital formats (i.e. digibeta): Tone at -20dBFS
Consumer digital formats (i.e. miniDV): Tone at -12dBFS
PAL: -18dBFS
Analog: 0VU

Your peaks should not exceed 8dBFS of tone, or ?4? VU of analog tone. In Vegas, the numbers indicate peak level (doesn't do analog VU though).

dBFS refers to decibels full scale, or really just digital dB (ie the dBs you see in Vegas). This is to differentiate from analog dB (which are voltages instead of 1s and 0s).

2- Timecode: Typically the commercial should start at exactly 01:00:00;00 (if using drop-frame timecode) or 10:00:00;00. One station I know of wanted non-drop-frame timecode when delivering 3 spots on digibeta.
The convention is to start on exactly the hour or the tenth.

3- The -I and Q bars in Vegas are different from other programs, but no one may care.

If you render the bars out in Vegas, I think you may get generation loss (which probably doesn't matter).

4- Depending on the level of the broadcaster, they may have someone there just fix all the videos that come in.
There was a Sony on the sony forum about this.

At other places, quality control may be very strict.

Jay Gladwell · September 7th, 2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

3- The -I and Q bars in Vegas are different from other programs, but no one may care.

You're the only person who is claiming this. (I read the post you put up on the Vegas forum.)

Jay

Glenn Chan · September 7th, 2005, 07:42 AM

Well I put Vegas' and Adam Wilt's color bars onto miniDV tape, and captured that into Final Cut Pro.

THe -I and Q bars from Vegas, Adam Wilt's, and Final Cut Pro's are all different.

On a vectorscope, I'm pretty sure the -I and Q bars from Vegas will be off.

It may be that the -I and Q bars aren't that useful anymore because no one uses YIQ???

Bob Costa · September 7th, 2005, 09:51 PM

Thanks all, hopefully that is enough to get me thru.

Jay, I am using Vegas 5.0b, 6.0 is here but not loaded yet, waiting for a lull in case my whole system craps out when I go to SP2.

And all the I & Q stuff is above my IQ, so I hope I don't have to worry about it. :)

Shane Ross · September 8th, 2005, 01:10 AM

"The "slate" is the color bars with the tone."

Wrong wrong wrong. Color bars are color bars, and tone is tone. The color bars and reference tone are usually run simultaniously, thus the term "bars and tone."

The SLATE is the term used for text on screen to tell you what is on the tape. It usually has the show name, what version of the cut it is (rough cut, fine cut, final locked picture) the date and the total running time (or TRT). Many BBC productions used a slate and countdown clock at the same time. But on productions I worked on, we had the slate, then a 10 second countdown to 2 (or no countdown) then the program start.

ANd the program start MUST hit at 1;00;00;00 on the tape.

Jay Gladwell · September 8th, 2005, 05:26 AM

[QUOTE=Shane Ross]The SLATE is the term used for text on screen to tell you what is on the tape.[QUOTE]

"The "slate" is the color bars with the tone."

Right, right, right... "with the text on screen to tell you what is on the tape" supered over the color bars. I've done/seen enough of these for enough years to know what I'm talking about.

Jay

Shane Ross · September 8th, 2005, 06:28 AM

Text OVER the bars? No...I have never seen, nor would I ever want that. I want...and so do networks...clean bars to adjust levels on scopes. Text would really mess that up.

Jay Gladwell · September 8th, 2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

Text OVER the bars? No...I have never seen, nor would I ever want that. I want...and so do networks...clean bars to adjust levels on scopes. Text would really mess that up.

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean jack. If you know what you're doing... since you are so sure of everything, I won't waste any more time or band width on the issue.

Jay

Matt Helme · September 8th, 2005, 08:27 PM

Bars and Tone are Bars and Tone. Your Slate should include name of your Director, Name of the production and the date of the production.

Matt Helme · September 8th, 2005, 08:32 PM

Hi Jay, just becouse you have seen text over bars many times does not make it right,it is not, text over bars and tone would render the bars and tone useless.

Bob Costa · September 12th, 2005, 07:18 AM

SIgh..... Getting away from pissing match, how do I generate Tone in Vegas ? I can't seem to find where it is. And for color bars, should I use standard NTSC or SMTPE bars???

Glenn Chan · September 12th, 2005, 07:36 AM

Bob:

A- Download Audacity. It's free, and I'm fairly sure it can generate 1khz tone.
B- Print to tape, and Vegas can add tone. Capture that and use it.

2- SMPTE bars are for the NTSC television standard? So in other words, more or less the same thing.

September 6th, 2005, 07:59 PM	#1
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Commercials - prep details I just got the specs for a commercial I am producing, but would like some help: :30 seconds of bars and tone :10 seconds of slate :2 seconds of black commercial :5 seconds of black at the end I understand all of that but: 1. How can I generate tone? What level do I set it at, relative to the audio in the commercial? 2. What bars should I use? The ones that the NLE (Vegas) generates, or the ones I captured from the camera? 3. Can someone point me at a ten second slate I can use (thats a countdown timer, right??) __________________ You are either growing or dying.

September 7th, 2005, 09:51 PM	#7
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Thanks all, hopefully that is enough to get me thru. Jay, I am using Vegas 5.0b, 6.0 is here but not loaded yet, waiting for a lull in case my whole system craps out when I go to SP2. And all the I & Q stuff is above my IQ, so I hope I don't have to worry about it. :) __________________ You are either growing or dying.

September 8th, 2005, 08:27 PM	#12
Matt Helme New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Amboy New Jersey Posts: 22	Commercials Prep Bars and Tone are Bars and Tone. Your Slate should include name of your Director, Name of the production and the date of the production.

September 8th, 2005, 08:32 PM	#13
Matt Helme New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Amboy New Jersey Posts: 22	Text over Bars and Tone Hi Jay, just becouse you have seen text over bars many times does not make it right,it is not, text over bars and tone would render the bars and tone useless.

September 12th, 2005, 07:18 AM	#14
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	SIgh..... Getting away from pissing match, how do I generate Tone in Vegas ? I can't seem to find where it is. And for color bars, should I use standard NTSC or SMTPE bars??? __________________ You are either growing or dying.

September 7th, 2005, 03:59 AM	#2
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Did a little dogpile search... sort through "test tone .wav" for the tone ;) For $50 http://www.itworks.com/products/ntsc-ref.htm

September 7th, 2005, 06:09 AM	#3
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	1. How can I generate tone? What level do I set it at, relative to the audio in the commercial? Vegas generates the proper tone at the proper level. 2. What bars should I use? The ones that the NLE (Vegas) generates, or the ones I captured from the camera? Use the SMPTE bars in Vegas. 3. Can someone point me at a ten second slate I can use (thats a countdown timer, right??) The "slate" is the color bars with the tone. Then there is a visual countdown, usually of 10 seconds total (make your own in Vegas). Following the countdown there is usually 2 seconds of black, followed by the commercial. Bob, what version of Vegas are you using? Jay

September 7th, 2005, 07:42 AM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Well I put Vegas' and Adam Wilt's color bars onto miniDV tape, and captured that into Final Cut Pro. THe -I and Q bars from Vegas, Adam Wilt's, and Final Cut Pro's are all different. On a vectorscope, I'm pretty sure the -I and Q bars from Vegas will be off. It may be that the -I and Q bars aren't that useful anymore because no one uses YIQ???

September 8th, 2005, 01:10 AM	#8
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	"The "slate" is the color bars with the tone." Wrong wrong wrong. Color bars are color bars, and tone is tone. The color bars and reference tone are usually run simultaniously, thus the term "bars and tone." The SLATE is the term used for text on screen to tell you what is on the tape. It usually has the show name, what version of the cut it is (rough cut, fine cut, final locked picture) the date and the total running time (or TRT). Many BBC productions used a slate and countdown clock at the same time. But on productions I worked on, we had the slate, then a 10 second countdown to 2 (or no countdown) then the program start. ANd the program start MUST hit at 1;00;00;00 on the tape.

September 8th, 2005, 05:26 AM	#9
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	[QUOTE=Shane Ross]The SLATE is the term used for text on screen to tell you what is on the tape.[QUOTE] "The "slate" is the color bars with the tone." Right, right, right... "with the text on screen to tell you what is on the tape" supered over the color bars. I've done/seen enough of these for enough years to know what I'm talking about. Jay

September 8th, 2005, 06:28 AM	#10
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Text OVER the bars? No...I have never seen, nor would I ever want that. I want...and so do networks...clean bars to adjust levels on scopes. Text would really mess that up.

September 12th, 2005, 07:36 AM	#15
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Bob: A- Download Audacity. It's free, and I'm fairly sure it can generate 1khz tone. B- Print to tape, and Vegas can add tone. Capture that and use it. 2- SMPTE bars are for the NTSC television standard? So in other words, more or less the same thing.