Multicam Shoot advice at DVinfo.net

Jesse Bradley · January 19th, 2012, 02:42 PM

I'm doing a 4 camera shoot with Canon XH A1 HD camera's. I'd like to view all for cameras on one monitor or a laptop. Anyone ever do something like this? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Scott Holchin · January 19th, 2012, 05:53 PM

We need more info, is this a live event or taped for editing in post. I do 4 camera shoots with the xha1 all the time and edit in fcp7 as muliticlip. I have never done a live switcher with the xha1's.

Jesse Bradley · January 20th, 2012, 09:04 AM

It's taped for edit in post. I don't need to switch it. I just want to be able to view the 4 cameras so I can direct/see the shots.
Thanks

Charles Papert · January 20th, 2012, 09:55 AM

Well, there may be software based solutions for this, but I use a Decimator Quad for multicamera viewing on a single monitor.

Barry Hunter · February 2nd, 2012, 10:52 AM

What are you editing the shoot with? I use Avid Liquid 7.2 & Edius 6.05, both of which support Multicam editing. My preferred Multicam editor is Edius! You don`t need to render files as in Liquid or even Premiere. Simply sync up on the timeline & hit F8. Even when you have changed tapes or cards & need to include these, simply place on the timeline & re-sync. For example, lets say you are using 4 cams, on one of them at some point you need to change media, all you need to do is find a common point on the new media & sync with the cams already synced & off you go, simples :-)

Jay West · February 2nd, 2012, 02:00 PM

As do all recent versions of Premiere Pro and Vegas.

Barry Hunter · February 2nd, 2012, 02:05 PM

Do you have to render the sequence in Premiere Pro & Vegas?

Jay West · February 2nd, 2012, 02:28 PM

If the original question is about viewing the multi-cam display on a second or on an external tv/broadcast monitor, you have several options.

If you have a dual-head video card with an HDMI-out port, PPro allows you to feed the multi-cam monitoring window to a tv via the HDMI. I think most other programs have similar functins but I am not famiiar enough with them to know how well it works. I tried it a few years back on a firend's Vegas 8 system and, while it worked, the hardware was not robust enough to get more than ½ resolution. Bears checking into.

With PPro, FCP 7 and Avid, you can use Matrox's MXO2 or MXO2-mini for a semi-calibrated hdmi-display. I think Black Magic Deisgn may have similar hardware, but PC only. Grass Valley also has i/o display solutions for Edius, as well. AJA and others have higher end solutions if you need them.

For syncing the tracks, there aer the time honored clapperboard or camera flash to use as synch points. You can try to sync by matching audio waveforms if you have scratch audio for all your video tracks. Plural Eyes software will automate this for you and I found it worked pretty well with PPro when I tried it out. (Note that it only syncs to a particular point and does not crrect for clock drift). The newly released upgrade to FCP-X has a similar function that supposed works with as many as 64 tracks.

Jay West · February 2nd, 2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Hunter

Do you have to render the sequence in Premiere Pro & Vegas?

Not in PPro CS 5 and 5.5.

I have not worked with newer versions of Vegas, yet, and cannot comment on that.

Jay West · February 2nd, 2012, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Bradley

It's taped for edit in post. I don't need to switch it. I just want to be able to view the 4 cameras so I can direct/see the shots.
Thanks

Ooops. Missed this. I think this means Jesse is asking about monitoring while shooting rather than while editing. So, much of the advice here is off point.

If so, that leads me to ask Jesse : do you already have a way to to feed signals from the cameras to wherever you will be located while monitoring? Is this a one-time deal or are you planning on doing a lot of this? If you are going to be doing a lot, what kind of budget are you working with?

Since you want to check the views, I'm guessing that you do not care about an audio feed.

If that is the case, depending on how far the cameras are from each other, you could take a composite or BNC feed from the video out ports on the XH cameras and snake cables to a unit like the Decimator, the one that Charles suggested. Decimators go for around $750-$800, I think, and would allow you to use almost any old tv. (ASFAIK, my XHA1 outputs only SD via the composite or BNC connections. I assume that the XHA1s will be the same in this respect.)

If you need an HD signal, you would have to use component feeds and a lot more cables, and I do not know what you'd use for getting a four-way signal to a monitor.

I can make a suggestion if you will not be doing much of this and if you do not need to have pristine video in the monitor. When I've done for jobs with four-way monitoring --- all of twice in recent years --- is that I pulled some stuff out of my basement. I resurected my old Videonics MX1 mixer and the co-ax cables I used from when I was doing live-mixes with Hi-8 cameras back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The co-ax cables have BNC to RCA adapters on either end. because the cameras had RCA-video out and the MX1 had RCA-video inputs. Then I fed a composite out from the MX1 to a small LCD television.

My recent resurrection of this antique gear to help a student project at the local middle school. It worked well enough for the director to see where he wanted the camera operators aiming. (They communicated with small Motoroloa "Talkabout" units equipped with head sets.) Last time I checked -- a couple of years ago -- the MX1 units seemed to be selling on e-Bay for between $200 and $400.

Barry Hunter · February 3rd, 2012, 04:59 AM

Eartec market a good range of "Talkback" units & instead of using a "wired" video link, why not consider a "wireless sender" configuration. Although we don`t need to see all camera shots when we cover an event, we normally have 2 lock-offs & 2 manned cams with those operators being able to see each others shots, this combined with the Eartec talkbacks enables us to leapfrog shots & not both have both of us moving at the same time. Works well for us.

Jay West · February 3rd, 2012, 11:10 AM

Could you provide some makes and model numbers for the "wireless sender" units that you use for monitor transmitter/receivers?

I am interested in this too but the last time I went looking, everything seemed to have prices that exceeded my rather limited budget.

I found some less expensive wireless units by (if I recall correctly) a company called CPM. I did not find out if they had selectable transmission channels because the range was limited to 30 feet/10 meters. That is too short a distance for my needs.

I found some 4-channel units from the likes of Geffen and Lectrosonics. I recall them running around $4000 to $5000 (USD). Something like a Decimator ($700-800) was needed to get a four-way split screen display. B&H also pointed me to units with multiple selectable channels and significant range --- Transvideo is the name that comes to mind ---- but these were more expensive that than the Lectrosonics.

Jesse, the OP, did not specify a budget, but that cost exceeded my budget. If there are less expensive wireless units, I, too, am interested.

Jay West · February 3rd, 2012, 11:25 AM

Could you provide some makes and model numbers for the wireless video transmitting units that you use?

I am interested in this too but the last time I went looking, everything seemed to have prices that exceeded my rather limited budget.

I found some less expensive wireless units by (if I recall correctly) a company called CPM. I did not find out if they had selectable transmission channels because the range was limited to 30 feet/10 meters. That is too short a distance for my needs.

I found some 4-channel units from the likes of Geffen and Lectrosonics. I recall them running around $4000 to $5000 (USD). Something like a Decimator ($700-800) was needed to get a four-way split screen display. B&H also pointed me to units with multiple selectable channels and significant range --- Transvideo is the name that comes to mind ---- but these were more expensive that than the Lectrosonics.

Jesse, the OP, did not specify a budget, but that cost exceeded my budget. If there are less expensive wireless units, I, too, am interested.

Sander Vreuls · February 3rd, 2012, 11:30 AM

When SDI I'd use a decimator, when using CVBS you can use any colour security cam quad split. They're not great quality though so judging colour or focus is not doable..

I'd add a ASL/clearcom 2-wire party line intercom using XLR cable's with beltpacks as well.. If you have some recorder (for example even a mini-dv camera with line in) you could record your cues, which might ease up the editing somewhat. Then you could just follow your cueline...

Barry Hunter · February 3rd, 2012, 12:10 PM

If you search on Ebay for Audio/Video 2.4 sender unit you'll find they are available for about £33.00 incl free economy from Hong Kong. Dependant on where you are using them they range from 1000m line of sight to 80m through walls etc. The come as a pr (1 x TX & 1x RX)

I`ve used them on a number of occasions.

January 19th, 2012, 02:42 PM	#1
Jesse Bradley New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 8	Multicam Shoot advice I'm doing a 4 camera shoot with Canon XH A1 HD camera's. I'd like to view all for cameras on one monitor or a laptop. Anyone ever do something like this? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks! __________________ "What Is Understood Need Not Be Discussed"

January 19th, 2012, 05:53 PM	#2
Scott Holchin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fairview Park, Ohio Posts: 29	Re: Multicam Shoot advice We need more info, is this a live event or taped for editing in post. I do 4 camera shoots with the xha1 all the time and edit in fcp7 as muliticlip. I have never done a live switcher with the xha1's.

January 20th, 2012, 09:04 AM	#3
Jesse Bradley New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 8	Re: Multicam Shoot advice It's taped for edit in post. I don't need to switch it. I just want to be able to view the 4 cameras so I can direct/see the shots. Thanks __________________ "What Is Understood Need Not Be Discussed"

January 20th, 2012, 09:55 AM	#4
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Re: Multicam Shoot advice Well, there may be software based solutions for this, but I use a Decimator Quad for multicamera viewing on a single monitor. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

February 2nd, 2012, 10:52 AM	#5
Barry Hunter Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 46	Re: Multicam Shoot advice What are you editing the shoot with? I use Avid Liquid 7.2 & Edius 6.05, both of which support Multicam editing. My preferred Multicam editor is Edius! You don`t need to render files as in Liquid or even Premiere. Simply sync up on the timeline & hit F8. Even when you have changed tapes or cards & need to include these, simply place on the timeline & re-sync. For example, lets say you are using 4 cams, on one of them at some point you need to change media, all you need to do is find a common point on the new media & sync with the cams already synced & off you go, simples :-)

February 2nd, 2012, 02:00 PM	#6
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Multicam Shoot advice As do all recent versions of Premiere Pro and Vegas.

February 2nd, 2012, 02:05 PM	#7
Barry Hunter Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 46	Re: Multicam Shoot advice Do you have to render the sequence in Premiere Pro & Vegas?

February 2nd, 2012, 02:28 PM	#8
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Multicam Shoot advice If the original question is about viewing the multi-cam display on a second or on an external tv/broadcast monitor, you have several options. If you have a dual-head video card with an HDMI-out port, PPro allows you to feed the multi-cam monitoring window to a tv via the HDMI. I think most other programs have similar functins but I am not famiiar enough with them to know how well it works. I tried it a few years back on a firend's Vegas 8 system and, while it worked, the hardware was not robust enough to get more than ½ resolution. Bears checking into. With PPro, FCP 7 and Avid, you can use Matrox's MXO2 or MXO2-mini for a semi-calibrated hdmi-display. I think Black Magic Deisgn may have similar hardware, but PC only. Grass Valley also has i/o display solutions for Edius, as well. AJA and others have higher end solutions if you need them. For syncing the tracks, there aer the time honored clapperboard or camera flash to use as synch points. You can try to sync by matching audio waveforms if you have scratch audio for all your video tracks. Plural Eyes software will automate this for you and I found it worked pretty well with PPro when I tried it out. (Note that it only syncs to a particular point and does not crrect for clock drift). The newly released upgrade to FCP-X has a similar function that supposed works with as many as 64 tracks.

February 3rd, 2012, 04:59 AM	#11
Barry Hunter Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 46	Re: Multicam Shoot advice Eartec market a good range of "Talkback" units & instead of using a "wired" video link, why not consider a "wireless sender" configuration. Although we don`t need to see all camera shots when we cover an event, we normally have 2 lock-offs & 2 manned cams with those operators being able to see each others shots, this combined with the Eartec talkbacks enables us to leapfrog shots & not both have both of us moving at the same time. Works well for us.

February 3rd, 2012, 11:10 AM	#12
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Multicam Shoot advice Could you provide some makes and model numbers for the "wireless sender" units that you use for monitor transmitter/receivers? I am interested in this too but the last time I went looking, everything seemed to have prices that exceeded my rather limited budget. I found some less expensive wireless units by (if I recall correctly) a company called CPM. I did not find out if they had selectable transmission channels because the range was limited to 30 feet/10 meters. That is too short a distance for my needs. I found some 4-channel units from the likes of Geffen and Lectrosonics. I recall them running around $4000 to $5000 (USD). Something like a Decimator ($700-800) was needed to get a four-way split screen display. B&H also pointed me to units with multiple selectable channels and significant range --- Transvideo is the name that comes to mind ---- but these were more expensive that than the Lectrosonics. Jesse, the OP, did not specify a budget, but that cost exceeded my budget. If there are less expensive wireless units, I, too, am interested.

February 3rd, 2012, 11:25 AM	#13
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Multicam Shoot advice Could you provide some makes and model numbers for the wireless video transmitting units that you use? I am interested in this too but the last time I went looking, everything seemed to have prices that exceeded my rather limited budget. I found some less expensive wireless units by (if I recall correctly) a company called CPM. I did not find out if they had selectable transmission channels because the range was limited to 30 feet/10 meters. That is too short a distance for my needs. I found some 4-channel units from the likes of Geffen and Lectrosonics. I recall them running around $4000 to $5000 (USD). Something like a Decimator ($700-800) was needed to get a four-way split screen display. B&H also pointed me to units with multiple selectable channels and significant range --- Transvideo is the name that comes to mind ---- but these were more expensive that than the Lectrosonics. Jesse, the OP, did not specify a budget, but that cost exceeded my budget. If there are less expensive wireless units, I, too, am interested.

February 3rd, 2012, 11:30 AM	#14
Sander Vreuls Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands Posts: 184	Re: Multicam Shoot advice When SDI I'd use a decimator, when using CVBS you can use any colour security cam quad split. They're not great quality though so judging colour or focus is not doable.. I'd add a ASL/clearcom 2-wire party line intercom using XLR cable's with beltpacks as well.. If you have some recorder (for example even a mini-dv camera with line in) you could record your cues, which might ease up the editing somewhat. Then you could just follow your cueline...

February 3rd, 2012, 12:10 PM	#15
Barry Hunter Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 46	Re: Multicam Shoot advice If you search on Ebay for Audio/Video 2.4 sender unit you'll find they are available for about £33.00 incl free economy from Hong Kong. Dependant on where you are using them they range from 1000m line of sight to 80m through walls etc. The come as a pr (1 x TX & 1x RX) I`ve used them on a number of occasions.