Basic DV Mixer Search at DVinfo.net

Ervz Tia · August 1st, 2011, 08:28 PM

hello,

Is there something else in the range of the

Focus-MXPro-DV? (and maybe cheaper?)
I'm thinking really basic DV mixer, 2 to 4 firewire cameras, cut/fade+, clean image...

Thanks.

Ric Marrty · August 2nd, 2011, 08:20 AM

You can try a software only mixer the best imop are

avtake.com
vidblaster.com
vmix.com

I use avtake and its great I do sports and talking heads mostly for broadcast though all can be used for web castin.
ric

Giroud Francois · August 2nd, 2011, 11:43 AM

DV (or firewire) stinks for mixer because there is usually a big delay between input and output.
So nothing you can use for realtime event.
Composite video, when going directly out from the cam is usually high quality, almost better than the 4:2:0 DV.
And coax cable for video is cheap and support huge lenght. Firewire cable is expensive and hard to find in length longer than few meters.

and most camera today still have the A/V out , but most do not have the firewire (that was for DV, obsolete now with most camcorders using memory cards in mpeg4).

Ric Marrty · August 2nd, 2011, 03:47 PM

That is not correcct. I do sports (voleyball and boxing) for delayed on air broadcasting and never had a problem the delay is not noticible at all. My fw cabels are 120 feet I use fw extenders. The shielding is the important thing in fw cables.

I connect 4 fw cameras and the quality is better than composite. I don't know what app you have used or camera but i totaly disagree with you. If you prefer component hd/sdi than you can purchase the new deckink cards.

You can still finf fw new cameras on sale.

Ric

Giroud Francois · August 2nd, 2011, 04:48 PM

"delayed on air broadcasting ", so even few seconds of delay is not a problem for you.
But if you are video projecting some speaker in a room, even few frames make the picture totally out of sync with the direct sound. DV is introducing 0.25 to 0.5 sec. delay.
And DV is 720x 576 (in pal) 4:2:0 or 720x480 (in NTSC) 4:1:1 , so color resolution is about 360x240.
Composite from AV out is usually 720x480 in 4:2:2 so a lot better, provided the mixer does not cut that down to 4:2:0

Currently the most bang for the bucks you can get is to build a cheap PC with 5 pci-e slots, and put 4 blackmagic intensity pro card (about 180$ each) driven by the Vmix2010 software.
you will get an SD/HD mixer for less than 1500$ with features you cannot even dream on a regular mixer that cost 10.000$
black magic intensity pro cards accept all common inputs like composite, component, Y-C, HDMI.
output can be fromthe VGA card (a cheap dual head nvidia will give output in VGA-DVI-HDMI from 800x600 to 1920x1200).
You will be able to mix video inputs with recorded clips, pictures, powerpoint slides, overly for titles, flash movies, desktop capture from another PC from network, color keying.

Ric Marrty · August 2nd, 2011, 11:01 PM

Its not even a few seconds it 4 or five frames. a lot of the higher end hard switches also have delays.
The delay is in the source monitors not in the content. So you might miss a cut by 1/25 of a second. Whats the problem? I work in sd great image and color. The sound will not drift or go out of sync if you do it right. For good sound you need to feed it through one camera into the system. I have never had any sync issues with talking head program at all.

The vmix is ok. But both the vidblaster and avtake offer much more than cutting between cameras. You can insert video clips,images and photos, you can record in sd,dv and hd (depending on your system) plus at the same time stream to internet. Plus more stuff. you cannot do thi with the vmix. to do something like this in a hard switcher wou need to sepnd at least 15k for a broadcast pix or tricaster. nothing inbetween can handle these like these apps. You can program vidblaster to transmit 24 hours and insert media and commerciasl or what ever automatically.

Ervz Tia · August 7th, 2011, 07:34 PM

Thanks.

I am checking out AVTakeFour, VidBlaster and other links.

So, you're saying a computer-based software mixer is your preference?
I was thinking a simple stand-alone portable unit. I kind of like the simpicity of the old MX-1 environment....small, simple, hook up a quad-LCD monitor plug-in cameras, recorder and go.

Recently, we've been recording it to file by Firestore.

We normally send it for quick post for basic edit/titles/sound, before delivery.

Giroud Francois · August 8th, 2011, 05:49 AM

i use the mx-1 from videonics since long time an these little devices were really marvels... at their time.
The biggest drawback i got with the mx-1 was, it is a video mixer. No luck if you have to input PC content (awfull when converted to video) and quality is acceptable but at bottom of the range.
the Main problem you encouter is usually people wanting video AND PC in the same event, also want seamless switching. So you got the pc connected to the video projector with VGA connection and no way to make a clean switch to video.
Or you got the mixer connected to the projector with composite/YC and no way to display the powerpoint charts from the PC.

If you need to set up a small solution quick and cheap for some kind of web TV or doing some live work that just need switching camera (sport event) it is still a great tool.

DV was just a temporary attempt to make video easier with PC, but it is obsolete today, and you always got that delay (about half a second) that makes it useless for realtime application.
Today cameras come with USB port to connect to PC or AV/HDMI to connect to TV set.

going HD is a must today, an most HD mixer are just overpriced.
HD is the solution, not because it is HD, but it allows to mix PC content and video, without problems.
You do not need to care anymore about input and output resolution.
you can mix a 1280x800 powerpoint presentation with a 720x576 video speaker and output everything on
a 1920x1080 HD projector. It just works.
The PC route is the way to go if you want a cheap and efficient system, and after all, most HD mixers todays are nothing else than computers in a customized box.
I have found Vmix2010 to be cheap enough (less than 100$) and powerfull enough to fill all my needs.
Especially took it because it was developped to use the also cheap Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards.

Today, if somebody ask me to manage their event, i know that with my setup i can solve all the case.

Ric Marrty · August 8th, 2011, 10:19 AM

The biggest drawback to themx is all the extras you need like monitors, recorder. cables for mixer,monitor....

With software app all you need is a computer and your monitor (cameras and camera cables)

Can tell us what kind of content are you planning to tape? how will it be presented?

Avtake and vidblaster have many features, vmix i don't know because there site has been does for about 3 weeks.

All three have demos. I suggest you download them and test them.

ric

Ric Marrty · August 8th, 2011, 10:41 AM

However there is a new hardware/software swithcher for less than $1000.00 from black magic called ATEM Television Studio - $995
You can input up to six cameras and use a video monitor. the switching interface is also a software. so you get the best of both in one package.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/atem/models/

ric

Ervz Tia · December 13th, 2011, 02:14 AM

Yup, the ATETM-TV looks promising. It's just too heavily digital....including the audio!
I mean, HDMI is cool, we use HDV cameras.

August 1st, 2011, 08:28 PM	#1
Ervz Tia Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 42	Basic DV Mixer Search hello, Is there something else in the range of the Focus-MXPro-DV? (and maybe cheaper?) I'm thinking really basic DV mixer, 2 to 4 firewire cameras, cut/fade+, clean image... Thanks.

August 2nd, 2011, 08:20 AM	#2
Ric Marrty Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tenerife Spain Posts: 71	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search You can try a software only mixer the best imop are avtake.com vidblaster.com vmix.com I use avtake and its great I do sports and talking heads mostly for broadcast though all can be used for web castin. ric

August 2nd, 2011, 11:43 AM	#3
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search DV (or firewire) stinks for mixer because there is usually a big delay between input and output. So nothing you can use for realtime event. Composite video, when going directly out from the cam is usually high quality, almost better than the 4:2:0 DV. And coax cable for video is cheap and support huge lenght. Firewire cable is expensive and hard to find in length longer than few meters. and most camera today still have the A/V out , but most do not have the firewire (that was for DV, obsolete now with most camcorders using memory cards in mpeg4).

August 2nd, 2011, 03:47 PM	#4
Ric Marrty Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tenerife Spain Posts: 71	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search That is not correcct. I do sports (voleyball and boxing) for delayed on air broadcasting and never had a problem the delay is not noticible at all. My fw cabels are 120 feet I use fw extenders. The shielding is the important thing in fw cables. I connect 4 fw cameras and the quality is better than composite. I don't know what app you have used or camera but i totaly disagree with you. If you prefer component hd/sdi than you can purchase the new deckink cards. You can still finf fw new cameras on sale. Ric

August 2nd, 2011, 04:48 PM	#5
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search "delayed on air broadcasting ", so even few seconds of delay is not a problem for you. But if you are video projecting some speaker in a room, even few frames make the picture totally out of sync with the direct sound. DV is introducing 0.25 to 0.5 sec. delay. And DV is 720x 576 (in pal) 4:2:0 or 720x480 (in NTSC) 4:1:1 , so color resolution is about 360x240. Composite from AV out is usually 720x480 in 4:2:2 so a lot better, provided the mixer does not cut that down to 4:2:0 Currently the most bang for the bucks you can get is to build a cheap PC with 5 pci-e slots, and put 4 blackmagic intensity pro card (about 180$ each) driven by the Vmix2010 software. you will get an SD/HD mixer for less than 1500$ with features you cannot even dream on a regular mixer that cost 10.000$ black magic intensity pro cards accept all common inputs like composite, component, Y-C, HDMI. output can be fromthe VGA card (a cheap dual head nvidia will give output in VGA-DVI-HDMI from 800x600 to 1920x1200). You will be able to mix video inputs with recorded clips, pictures, powerpoint slides, overly for titles, flash movies, desktop capture from another PC from network, color keying.

August 2nd, 2011, 11:01 PM	#6
Ric Marrty Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tenerife Spain Posts: 71	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search Its not even a few seconds it 4 or five frames. a lot of the higher end hard switches also have delays. The delay is in the source monitors not in the content. So you might miss a cut by 1/25 of a second. Whats the problem? I work in sd great image and color. The sound will not drift or go out of sync if you do it right. For good sound you need to feed it through one camera into the system. I have never had any sync issues with talking head program at all. The vmix is ok. But both the vidblaster and avtake offer much more than cutting between cameras. You can insert video clips,images and photos, you can record in sd,dv and hd (depending on your system) plus at the same time stream to internet. Plus more stuff. you cannot do thi with the vmix. to do something like this in a hard switcher wou need to sepnd at least 15k for a broadcast pix or tricaster. nothing inbetween can handle these like these apps. You can program vidblaster to transmit 24 hours and insert media and commerciasl or what ever automatically.

August 7th, 2011, 07:34 PM	#7
Ervz Tia Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 42	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search Thanks. I am checking out AVTakeFour, VidBlaster and other links. So, you're saying a computer-based software mixer is your preference? I was thinking a simple stand-alone portable unit. I kind of like the simpicity of the old MX-1 environment....small, simple, hook up a quad-LCD monitor plug-in cameras, recorder and go. Recently, we've been recording it to file by Firestore. We normally send it for quick post for basic edit/titles/sound, before delivery.

August 8th, 2011, 05:49 AM	#8
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search i use the mx-1 from videonics since long time an these little devices were really marvels... at their time. The biggest drawback i got with the mx-1 was, it is a video mixer. No luck if you have to input PC content (awfull when converted to video) and quality is acceptable but at bottom of the range. the Main problem you encouter is usually people wanting video AND PC in the same event, also want seamless switching. So you got the pc connected to the video projector with VGA connection and no way to make a clean switch to video. Or you got the mixer connected to the projector with composite/YC and no way to display the powerpoint charts from the PC. If you need to set up a small solution quick and cheap for some kind of web TV or doing some live work that just need switching camera (sport event) it is still a great tool. DV was just a temporary attempt to make video easier with PC, but it is obsolete today, and you always got that delay (about half a second) that makes it useless for realtime application. Today cameras come with USB port to connect to PC or AV/HDMI to connect to TV set. going HD is a must today, an most HD mixer are just overpriced. HD is the solution, not because it is HD, but it allows to mix PC content and video, without problems. You do not need to care anymore about input and output resolution. you can mix a 1280x800 powerpoint presentation with a 720x576 video speaker and output everything on a 1920x1080 HD projector. It just works. The PC route is the way to go if you want a cheap and efficient system, and after all, most HD mixers todays are nothing else than computers in a customized box. I have found Vmix2010 to be cheap enough (less than 100$) and powerfull enough to fill all my needs. Especially took it because it was developped to use the also cheap Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards. Today, if somebody ask me to manage their event, i know that with my setup i can solve all the case.

August 8th, 2011, 10:19 AM	#9
Ric Marrty Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tenerife Spain Posts: 71	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search The biggest drawback to themx is all the extras you need like monitors, recorder. cables for mixer,monitor.... With software app all you need is a computer and your monitor (cameras and camera cables) Can tell us what kind of content are you planning to tape? how will it be presented? Avtake and vidblaster have many features, vmix i don't know because there site has been does for about 3 weeks. All three have demos. I suggest you download them and test them. ric

August 8th, 2011, 10:41 AM	#10
Ric Marrty Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tenerife Spain Posts: 71	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search However there is a new hardware/software swithcher for less than $1000.00 from black magic called ATEM Television Studio - $995 You can input up to six cameras and use a video monitor. the switching interface is also a software. so you get the best of both in one package. http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/atem/models/ ric

December 13th, 2011, 02:14 AM	#11
Ervz Tia Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 42	Re: Basic DV Mixer Search Yup, the ATETM-TV looks promising. It's just too heavily digital....including the audio! I mean, HDMI is cool, we use HDV cameras.