|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
![]() |
#1 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
|
Recreating the look of tube cameras
I'm a big fan of 1970s BBC studio drama. This was generally shot with the EMI 2001 camera. I want to shoot footage today and give it the same look. It doesn't need to be exact, just the general feel.
Clearly, the most authentic results would be obtained using an original 70s studio camera... sadly not possible. I have to go the digital route. So I've been fiddling around with digitally-shot footage in After Effects, trying to get it to look like 70s tube studio footage. Not much success yet. I tried recreating it "from the ground up", processing the image as the camera would have (separate the three colours and the luminance then re-layer them) but it only got me so far. I can't work out what's missing! The problem may be to do with how the separate channels are blended. Here Wikipedia describes what the EMI 2001 did, but not how the blending was done. Can anyone guess (or does anyone know) the equations that were used? I'd also appreciate people's views on the characteristics of footage shot on a high-quality tube camera. How would you describe it? (Please give helpful adjectives!) I used to think "desaturated", but that's not right because some tube footage has very vivid colour. Here are some stills from the 1970s. This is the look I'm after: Blake's 7 Blake's 7 again Unknown program Survivors The Guardians (multiple images) How to recreate images like that? I can do programming if that's a better way to go than After Effects. In either case I will make the resulting processor public so that anyone can use it (depending on how successful my efforts are!). |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Trustee
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,389
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Do you have an example of where you are at with the process now? Also, what camera and settings are you using to get the look?
Seems like you need either a dslr or af00/fs100 or similar to get the correct DOF. My 7D has been "dumbed down" to make it easier to grade with regular video cameras resulting in a desaturated look compared to stock but plenty of color left to look proper. To my eye, the lighting and relatively shallow dof stand out more than the color. Yes it has a look but not anything that can't be reproduced. I think it kinda like asking "why doesn't my dslr look like that feature film I just saw?" It's not just the camera that creates the look. Lighting is a huge part of the equation. In your example pics, the lighting seems pretty harsh and theres a really strong backlight or overhead light. The backgrounds are lit up b pretty bright as well. After lighting similarly, some grading might be all that's necessary. The outdoor "Survivors" looks like it came right off my 7D. If you do work out a solution that can be applied to any footage, I'd love to see it. Just think there's more to it on the shooting end.
__________________
The older I get, the better I was! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
In the 1970s, British television would have used hard lighting using Fresnel spots in the studios, which would be large part of the look.
The EMI 2001 had a camera control unit EMI 2001 Camera Control Unit, which had to be lined up everyday using test charts, after that a vision engineer would've matched the cameras by eye EMI 2001 operational control and colour balance panels*. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
"Survivors" was shot not with 2001's, but with Bosch KCR40's, as was a great deal of BBC location drama of the period. Googling has turned up this: http://www.smecc.org/video/BoschKCR40.pdf . I don't think any of it was ever shot with EMI2001s/studio, it was all location based and film or KCR40s.
For depth of field, the tubes were 1" - but the zoom lenses of the period tended to be somewhat smaller max aperture than may be the norm now, and would be unlikely to be used wide open anyway. (They would be unacceptably soft.) Hence, dof typically roughly comparable to 2/3" cameras today - so far greater than any of the DSLR etc cameras. Probably the biggest difference with modern cameras would be the absence of any sort of "knee" function, so if a highlight started to overexpose - that's it, it would go pure white. That was something DISLIKED at the time, seen as very "un-filmlike". A lot of the characteristics aren't really possible to do in post, they'd be the result of a tube characteristic, and due to the way the light and tube reacted together. (Comet-tailing as an example.) Even if you could simulate a comet-tail effect in post, the original light overload wouldn't be available in the recorded signal. Other characteristics are such as lag in the lowlights, and a distinctive noise pattern. If you really want to try re-creating a look, a reasonable first step may be to try reducing the chroma sharpness from what most modern cameras give, and maybe also adding some LF chroma noise. They seem to have a sort of colour "painted-in" look to them. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Thanks for replying, Robert.
>Do you have an example of where you are at with the process now? Also, what camera and settings are you using to get the look? My only camera is a camcorder, and it is away with a friend at the moment. My AFX project has been developed using the most generic modern image I could find: a digital still. I realise it would be better to use actual footage but that isn't possible at the moment. If you like, I can post "before" and "after" pictures showing what my AFX project does to the image. >you need either a dslr or af00/fs100 or similar to get the correct DOF. Are you referring to the Canon FS100 or the Sony NEX-FS100? >My 7D has been "dumbed down" to make it easier to grade with regular video cameras resulting in a desaturated look What do you mean by "dumbed down"? >To my eye, the lighting and relatively shallow dof stand out more than the color. Can shallow depth of field be achieved using special lenses with a camera like the 7D? >Yes it has a look but not anything that can't be reproduced. Well I hope you're right! >Lighting is a huge part of the equation. In your example pics, the lighting seems pretty harsh and theres a really strong backlight or overhead light. Yes, studio stuff in those days relied on heavy overhead lighting because the cameras, IIUC, required lots of light to avoid graininess. >The outdoor "Survivors" looks like it came right off my 7D. I'd love to see some footage taken with your 7D! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||||||||
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The noise pattern is problematic. I'm not sure how to approach this. I will have to analyse noise in period footage and see what I can do. You say it is distinctive... how would you describe it? Quote:
What do you mean by "LF chroma noise"? I don't mean to be rude; I'm learning all this stuff as I go! |
||||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Trustee
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,389
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
>you need either a dslr or af00/fs100 or similar to get the correct DOF.
Sony NEX-FS100 >My 7D has been "dumbed down" to make it easier to grade with regular video cameras resulting in a desaturated look What do you mean by "dumbed down"? I used Mr. Bloom's recommended settings ...I believe it is Sharpness all the way down, Contrast all the way down, and Saturation down 2 notches >To my eye, the lighting and relatively shallow dof stand out more than the color. Can shallow depth of field be achieved using special lenses with a camera like the 7D? Seems there is some confusion on the terminology with a few posters here... DSLRs excel at shallow DOF meaning with a low f-stop number, there is a very narrow field that remains in focus, all else is blurred. No special lenses needed...I can get really nice bokeh even with my 100-400 at f5.6. I recently did 4 days of shooting with my 70-200 f4 at f4 with a variable ND to control light and it yielded the result I was referring to in comparison to the outdoor example you showed. >The outdoor "Survivors" looks like it came right off my 7D. I'd love to see some footage taken with your 7D! My reel is on my website as well as vimeo...7D stuff starts around 1:30 and 2:01 (has a very different feel from my XF300) and has been graded so it's a little different. I'll post a raw example when I'm back at my edit station. Keep in mind there is a difference in look also with me shooting 30p. 25fps looks different...were the tube cameras interlaced?
__________________
The older I get, the better I was! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Came across this training video of the EMI 2001 ‪EMI 2001 Broadcast Camera Training Video (BBC) Part 2‬‏ - YouTube The big advantage of the camera was the compact design compared to studio cameras with the zoom lens stuck on the front. They continued to be used into the 1980s on Eastenders. Yes, those curved gammas were seen to be a disadvantage to the video engineers at the time. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | ||||||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But one way you may be able to get round this is to deliberately start off with a grossly underexposed image, such that all the usable detail is (say) within the lowest 25% of the range, then increase the gain, clipping off everything above 25%. At the same time, you then have the information between 25 and 100% to process to simulate the "tube look". (So only levels of (say) 75-100% would comet tail.) It would also increase the noise - but that may not matter given what you're trying to do. Quote:
Quote:
LF="low frequency", so noise affecting the colour bits of the picture more than luminance, and being "splodgy" rather than fine dots. |
||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Trustee
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,389
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Wow this is getting technical! Cool to read all this stuff even though half of it goes way over my head! In any case, below is a short sample of the 7D with the PB settings. Canon 70-200 f4 lens probably around 120mm at f6.4 shooting 1080 30p shutter set to 1/60 and iso at 100.
not sure if this helps as a starting point but it's a much flatter picture than the stock settings. I havent shot much indoor lit stuff with the 7D but if I get the chance, I'll try to duplicate the lighting from the stills and see how that looks!
__________________
The older I get, the better I was! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
The another point is that the EMI 2001 is interlace and that has a different look to 25p or 30p,
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | ||
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
Here are some A/B comparisons I've just made with my program. The first two were taken with a digital still camera, the third with a Canon XL2, and the fourth you'll recognise. http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7262/unled1nh.png http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/143/unled2km.png http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/unled3fq.png http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/unled4vk.png |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
If you can't afford a 2/3" camera, then for dof purposes a 1/2" like an EX would be a far better starting point than a DSLR or a FS100. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | ||
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
|
Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
The Sony EX 1 & 3 are 1/2" sensor cameras, An alternative might be to use a Panasonic AF100, which has 50i and you might be able to set up a pretty straight gamma curve using the camera's menus or at least not have the knee.
50i is the standard method of referring to 25 fps interlace as used by PAL. Some people say 25i, but it's the same thing. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
| ||||||
|
|