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#16 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
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But frankly, dof is far from the main thing that needs matching. It's the way modern sensors respond so differently compared to plumbicon tubes that is most important, hence my earlier comments. Quote:
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#17 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
Posts: 28
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
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It is a 4/3 camera. People on Amazon say it is good for shallow depth of field. Perhaps this is the perfect camera for my purposes? |
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#18 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
The reason I suggested it was because it's close to the 30mm tube size. However, 1970s British TV didn't go in for the shallow depth of field effect, during that period that would've mostly been seen on 35mm feature films.
Many modern video cameras have set up menus that allow you adjust the look of the camera. |
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#19 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
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I am eager to "summarise" the various suggestions that people have made. FILMING:
Does anyone have any comments on that process? |
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#20 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Here are some more stills taken from Survivors, as reference points. Scroll down to the text "DVD Preview". There are more in the linked pages "Series 2 DVD" and "Series 3 DVD".
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#21 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 170
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Kinda cool seeing the EMI 2001 training video. Interesting to note that the EMI 2001 was so heavy it needed four people to mount it on a pedestal... and that when it was introduced in 1967, it was considered to be an absolutely state of the art piece of equipment.
I've always liked the look that British TV was known for back in the days of tube cameras... it had a warmth and depth to it that seemed absent from TV productions in North America. |
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#22 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
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The trouble with using an AF101 may then be sensitivity. No problem in good lighting (just use ND), but in lower levels you'd have to open iris and be at far shallower dof than you're trying to achieve. But frankly I think all this talk of dof and large sensors is a bit of a red herring. As Brian says, the look you're after never really had the shallow effect that seems to have become the current craze. Yes, there'd be a certain differentiation, but not to the extent that is currently fashionable. As for lighting, then much of Survivors is exteriors, so the subject of lighting is also not really relevant to define "the tube camera look". (I do have the programme on DVD.) |
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#23 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond, London
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
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Did you see the processed stills I linked to? They were made by my computer program. For each pixel, it gets the channel values, then lays them G>R>B>L using the "Add" blending mode. Would you say the effect was "tube-like"? You also mentioned a "distinctive noise pattern" in tube footage. How would you say it differs from any other type of noise? (I'm thinking of AFX's bog-standard "Noise" effect, for example.) |
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#24 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
The tubes would be a large part of the look, but there is an entire signal chain which is analogue rather than digital and you also have to work within the confines of that old system. I guess that might be like trying to recreate the sound of analogue sound recordings using digital equipment.
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#25 |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
I recall in the early 80's when CCD's first came in how the camera dept were very sceptical about them as they didn't have the look of tube cameras, I suppose we have the same situation now with CMOS.
We did lots of music shows at Tyne Tees TV at the time including The Tube (no pun intended) U2 at red rocks and Queen live at wembley and the tube camera's could be a real pain due to the burning that occurred on the tubes due to the lights, the hand held's were also quite poor quality compared to the marconi Mk7's and the thompson camera's we had in the studio and on OB's. The programmes are being repeated on sky arts at the moment and they look very good and at times a lot better than some of the betacam and other DVcam content that is on air. I suppose the best way to emulate old tube camera's is to record at the best quality possible and do it in the grading process although I do also recall a lot of people not liking the look of some tube camera's as they were too clean and cold looking compared to the film that we also used at the time. As also said a lot of the BBC look was down to the lighting and the studio would have had lots of 5k and 10k lights to get good exposure, re-creating that these days may be impossible but some of the old BBC ser from the 70's still look very good on screen and Yesterday has been repeating some of them recently.
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#26 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
There was varying levels of aperture correction (electronic emphasis of higher frequencies) applied, quite often until you got the edge enhancement effect, which was the look that some TV stations used,.
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#27 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Quote:
Quote:
For that reason, I'm not so sure about the "look" of these 70's cameras being much down to lighting. In the case of Tenko (and Survivors) what is being referred to is exterior work, and in many cases with only natural lighting. |
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#28 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Yes, the film inserts really stand out now, however, they always did. Perhaps the film inserts signified this is a real place, rather just a TV studio set. Although, if you run that old film through a modern telecine the quality increase is amazing.
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#29 |
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
I was a BBC lighting cameraman during the seventies and have to cringe when I see some of my footage on dramas today on archive programmes.. Funny that at the time, the film inserts never looked as bad as they do now...!
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#30 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
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Re: Recreating the look of tube cameras
Perhaps the television sets have improved in recent years, or the compression used in the transmission chain doesn't like the film inserts compared to the cleaner video. They certainly look a lot more muddy.
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