BAD Wavy Effect at DVinfo.net

Oliver Darden · April 2nd, 2011, 01:44 AM

Can someone please tell me why I'm getting this horrible, wavy, colored effect on some my footage? You can see it the worst on the roof and windows. If you look at some of the windows it's like the blinds are moving up and down rapidly.
I used a Canon T2i (24p / 1920 x 1080), Canon 17-55mm 2.8 IS lens, The ISO was at 100, F-Stop 5.0.

Oliver Darden · April 2nd, 2011, 02:50 AM

Ok, so after some more research it seems this is "Moire", but I mean REALLY?..... I can't film windows, roofs, and blinds.....? Does it happen on the 7D as well or is this just a t2i problem? Any help / suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Dean Sensui · April 2nd, 2011, 03:40 AM

The footage isn't interlaced, is it?

From what I've experienced, progressive footage is generally free of that artifact.

Does it show up when you view the footage at full resolution on a monitor that's true 1920x1080?

Craig Parkes · April 2nd, 2011, 04:00 AM

That's Moire - and pretty much all vDSLR's suffer from it terrible because of how they get video from their large sensors (they don't read every line generally - they skip lines, this causes greater aliasing, which causes greater moire.)

Basically, there is no fix - the cameras aren't actually designed with video in mind, and this is one of the results of that.

Gary Nattrass · April 2nd, 2011, 04:26 AM

There is a fix, buy a video camera or if you need big sensor shallow DOF an Af101 or an F3 ;0)

David Grinnell · April 2nd, 2011, 06:46 AM

I use a GH2 and have no problems with Moire..

here is a video

Oliver Darden · April 2nd, 2011, 12:37 PM

So people with DSLR's just deal with this? I just spent $1200 bucks on a lens and now I'm questioning whether or not it was worth it...

Anyone ever try a Caprock 2.0?

Oliver Darden · April 2nd, 2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

There is a fix, buy a video camera or if you need big sensor shallow DOF an Af101 or an F3 ;0)

I'd love to buy an AF101 Gary, but I can't afford $4,795 for just the body.

Craig Parkes · April 3rd, 2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Darden

So people with DSLR's just deal with this? I just spent $1200 bucks on a lens and now I'm questioning whether or not it was worth it...

Anyone ever try a Caprock 2.0?
7D Caprock 2.0 Anti Moire Filter on Vimeo

Firstly - good class is always a good investment, because it holds it's value much better than electronics, and you can sell it to a number of potential users (still and video).

Secondly, I haven't seen anyone using any anti moire filter, but one thing they are going to do is soften the image. That's guaranteed, so if sharpness isn't your main concern then you have options in terms of not getting moire - you just can't have footage sharply in focus on the sensor, with lots of parallel lines, and not have moire, - due to the practical limitations of the video design.

A lot of people do just deal with it - because they haven't brought the DSLR to shoot video of subject matter where moire is going to crop up a lot. At the price you've paid for your camera, you've got a pretty decent stills camera that can also shoot lots of video subjects pretty well. That's something that you couldn't get only a few years ago.

Oliver Darden · April 3rd, 2011, 02:04 PM

All very true Craig, thanks.

Mike Chalmers · April 4th, 2011, 01:44 AM

Hi Oliver,

I have seen some anti-moire filters popping up recently, you might want to check them out. I have had some more subtle problems in the past but haven't had a chance to test these yet:

Now available: my DSLR anti-moire filter for FCP! Free download! Jorgen Escher

"FREE" DSLR Moire Filter plug in FCP | Digi1080p

I'm not sure what NLE you use, I believe these are FCP only..

Let me know how you get on!

Cheers

Mike

Oliver Darden · April 4th, 2011, 08:34 AM

Mike, I tried the plug-in and it didn't really do anything to help the wide footage. I had the Chroma Blur and Softening amount turned ALL the way up, and there was no noticeable difference. After further reading it seems this plug-in works best with micro-moire issues. The site says "This filter is less effective in removing moire appearing in regular and/or artificial patterns such as brick walls."

This plug-in DID however help me with some close-up shots of a computer screen that had really bad Moire and flicker. This is definitely a plug-in I will be using. Thank you.

Mike Chalmers · April 5th, 2011, 01:44 AM

No problem, sorry it didn't help the big stuff.

I know it's too late to do on this project, but one work-around - which can even make footage look a lot better - is to take some images before/after shooting the video and use it as a matte painting. Obviously this only works when locked off and requires more work in post, but can look amazing.

Oliver Darden · April 5th, 2011, 11:07 PM

Mike, that sound interesting....Never seen that before. Any blogs / video tutorials online of that?

Mike Chalmers · April 6th, 2011, 01:45 AM

Ask and you shall receive!

Here is a good one:

And here is one that isn't so much as a guide, but shows a similar technique combined with motion tracking:

YouTube - VFX Shot 1 - Building Matte Painting

MC

April 2nd, 2011, 01:44 AM	#1
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	BAD Wavy Effect Can someone please tell me why I'm getting this horrible, wavy, colored effect on some my footage? You can see it the worst on the roof and windows. If you look at some of the windows it's like the blinds are moving up and down rapidly. I used a Canon T2i (24p / 1920 x 1080), Canon 17-55mm 2.8 IS lens, The ISO was at 100, F-Stop 5.0. Untitled on Vimeo Last edited by Oliver Darden; April 2nd, 2011 at 02:48 AM.

April 2nd, 2011, 02:50 AM	#2
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Re: BAD Wavy Effect Ok, so after some more research it seems this is "Moire", but I mean REALLY?..... I can't film windows, roofs, and blinds.....? Does it happen on the 7D as well or is this just a t2i problem? Any help / suggestions are greatly appreciated. Canon Rebel T2i/550D More Tests on Vimeo

April 2nd, 2011, 03:40 AM	#3
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Re: BAD Wavy Effect The footage isn't interlaced, is it? From what I've experienced, progressive footage is generally free of that artifact. Does it show up when you view the footage at full resolution on a monitor that's true 1920x1080? __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

April 2nd, 2011, 04:00 AM	#4
Craig Parkes Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 444	Re: BAD Wavy Effect That's Moire - and pretty much all vDSLR's suffer from it terrible because of how they get video from their large sensors (they don't read every line generally - they skip lines, this causes greater aliasing, which causes greater moire.) Basically, there is no fix - the cameras aren't actually designed with video in mind, and this is one of the results of that. __________________ www.afterglow.co.nz

April 2nd, 2011, 04:26 AM	#5
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Re: BAD Wavy Effect There is a fix, buy a video camera or if you need big sensor shallow DOF an Af101 or an F3 ;0) __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

April 2nd, 2011, 06:46 AM	#6
David Grinnell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Owensboro, ky Posts: 96	Re: BAD Wavy Effect I use a GH2 and have no problems with Moire.. here is a video Panasonic Lumix GH2 Moire Tests on Vimeo

April 2nd, 2011, 12:37 PM	#7
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Re: BAD Wavy Effect So people with DSLR's just deal with this? I just spent $1200 bucks on a lens and now I'm questioning whether or not it was worth it... Anyone ever try a Caprock 2.0? 7D Caprock 2.0 Anti Moire Filter on Vimeo

April 3rd, 2011, 02:04 PM	#10
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Re: BAD Wavy Effect All very true Craig, thanks.

April 4th, 2011, 01:44 AM	#11
Mike Chalmers Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 43	Re: BAD Wavy Effect Hi Oliver, I have seen some anti-moire filters popping up recently, you might want to check them out. I have had some more subtle problems in the past but haven't had a chance to test these yet: Now available: my DSLR anti-moire filter for FCP! Free download! Jorgen Escher "FREE" DSLR Moire Filter plug in FCP \| Digi1080p I'm not sure what NLE you use, I believe these are FCP only.. Let me know how you get on! Cheers Mike

April 4th, 2011, 08:34 AM	#12
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Re: BAD Wavy Effect Mike, I tried the plug-in and it didn't really do anything to help the wide footage. I had the Chroma Blur and Softening amount turned ALL the way up, and there was no noticeable difference. After further reading it seems this plug-in works best with micro-moire issues. The site says "This filter is less effective in removing moire appearing in regular and/or artificial patterns such as brick walls." This plug-in DID however help me with some close-up shots of a computer screen that had really bad Moire and flicker. This is definitely a plug-in I will be using. Thank you.

April 5th, 2011, 01:44 AM	#13
Mike Chalmers Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 43	Re: BAD Wavy Effect No problem, sorry it didn't help the big stuff. I know it's too late to do on this project, but one work-around - which can even make footage look a lot better - is to take some images before/after shooting the video and use it as a matte painting. Obviously this only works when locked off and requires more work in post, but can look amazing.

April 5th, 2011, 11:07 PM	#14
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Re: BAD Wavy Effect Mike, that sound interesting....Never seen that before. Any blogs / video tutorials online of that?

April 6th, 2011, 01:45 AM	#15
Mike Chalmers Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 43	Re: BAD Wavy Effect Ask and you shall receive! Here is a good one: How to use stills to create simple matte painting effects for your DSLR footage on Vimeo And here is one that isn't so much as a guide, but shows a similar technique combined with motion tracking: YouTube - VFX Shot 1 - Building Matte Painting MC