Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts???

Lenny Warren · January 26th, 2011, 10:58 AM

I read reviews that said the x16 Fujinon suffered from Chromatic Aberration, although I'm sure it was a pre production camera so that could have affected it.

I'm waiting to hear about leasing, so fingers crossed. :-)

Lenny Warren · January 26th, 2011, 11:06 AM

Here's another thought, does the V-Lock mount have a D-tap connector to plug in a PAG light? I've specced it with IDX battery, but the PAG says it has a D-Tap adapter for powering the light?

Don Bloom · January 26th, 2011, 12:53 PM

the E model might be different but my friend with the 700 (here in the US with the AB mount) changed it to a Vlok mount since he had the IDX batteries anyway and it does have the power tap. However maybe check it out on the IDX site or another camera store site just to make sure but I'm pretty sure that it would be there for you.

George Kilroy · January 28th, 2011, 06:07 AM

It definitely has a D-Tap socket Max 50w, at least mine does, I'm looking at it right now.

As for CA on the 16x Fujinon, I've never seen it on any footage I've edited. It may be something that can be seen on scopes, but I edit by eye so it's not been a problem I've been aware of.

Gary Nattrass · January 29th, 2011, 09:48 AM

You did well to chose the 700 over the S270, I had a 270 and found it a bit plasticky and the HDV codec is not very good now.

Like all 1/3" chip camera's keep the aperture as wide open as possible to cut down the CA, I ended up going for the panasonic HPX301 and the 17x lens that it has is better than the TH16x.

George Kilroy · January 30th, 2011, 01:17 PM

Hi Gary.
I've read many of your posts so I know you are a knowledgeable guy so could you expand a little on why the x17 is better than the x16 apart from the obvious longer throw.

I ask because I have seen a lot of comment about the x16 Fujinon, the original lens supplied with the HM700 I bought, and most of it was negative yet I've never really heard why, just that the ones supplied now are better. A while ago I did do a side by side comparison with a x14 Canon, the one that is now supplied as standard, and to be honest I couldn't see any difference in the quality of the image. Admittedly it was only a 'by eye' comparison.

Is it sharper, brighter, smoother, or is it a subjective thing? Is there something I could look out for in my recorded footage that will show me where it is letting me down?

Les Howarth · January 30th, 2011, 03:43 PM

As someone still using a GY HD100 and upgraded the lens from the 16x last year to the Fujinion 17x last year. The 16x is not rubbish and is OK when not wide open and its a free starter with the camera so fair enuff.

However having the 17x I can say its a different grade of lens, better contrast and sharpness, and more saturated colour and noticabely less flarey into the light. Less CA, but unlike the 100 series cameras those that came after have compensation for the vertical magenta-to-green tint that occurs when wide open or near wide open. It's still there on the 17x just about but far less - and only when wide open.

Its quite a bit heavier too.

I would also say that viewed directly on a monitor the 17x looks more obviously HD (compared with the SD output) than the 16x output so the resolution or fine detail contrast must be improved too.

I may get a 700 body to put the 17x on later this year and use the 100 with 16x as a backup / B-cam.

George Kilroy · January 30th, 2011, 04:43 PM

Thanks for that Les.

Is this the lens you upgrade to - Fujinon TH17X5BRM-D29 1/3" ?

Did you trade your x16?
What was the cost of changing?

Les Howarth · January 31st, 2011, 06:59 PM

My box says TH17x5BRM-29. I think there are variations with different control options. The lens was a one-off "used only once" deal, someone bought it for a full manual lens with a Sony S270 and traded both back ultimately deciding to match his exisiting Panasonic P2 rather than have mixed systems.

It was like new, better than a demonstrator. At the time - last summer I saw the 17x listed at anywhere between £1300-£1700, I got it for £1100-ish, just before the end of my accounting year so pretty happy.

I see the 17x currently listing at £1499 +VAT so unless you really hate the 16x I would stick with it until the camera pays for a new one. For me it was a case of: do I want a new camera? - maybe..well actually I still like the looks from this one, but maybe I can make it better.

I kept the 16x I don't believe it would really have any second-hand value as all the 1st and 2nd Generation JVC's came with one - I think its notional list price was about 700.

If I do get a HM700 body later then 16x can go back on the HD100. Or if I change systems then I would resell the 17x, Basically it gives me sufficient improvement to stick with the system for another year or so while things are developing so fast.

George Kilroy · February 1st, 2011, 02:30 AM

Thanks Les, very helpful.

Lenny Warren · February 26th, 2011, 02:14 PM

Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit.

It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger.

Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere...

I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i.

I'm presuming I'm better on progressive?

24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

Lenny Warren · February 26th, 2011, 02:22 PM

Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit.

It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger.

Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere...

I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i.

I'm presuming I'm better on progressive?

24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

Gary Nattrass · February 26th, 2011, 03:26 PM

Web and DVD is best shot 1920x1080i at 25p then down convert within your software to suit or keep it at 1080i 25p for web, don't bother with 24p at all as you are not doing cinema prints or international sales.

Lenny Warren · February 28th, 2011, 02:38 PM

Sorry I double posted, my connection seemed to go down, not sure if it was website or my connection...

so for dvd and web, am I ok at 50i, what benefit would I get at 25p??

James McBoyle · March 1st, 2011, 03:41 AM

If you ever cover sport I'd suggest using 720p50 with your 700. It's what I use, and it makes watching football (soccer) so much nicer, plus you get smooth half-rate slo-mo for the goals as that is still 25 fps :-)

Have Fun,
Jim.

January 26th, 2011, 12:53 PM	#18
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	the E model might be different but my friend with the 700 (here in the US with the AB mount) changed it to a Vlok mount since he had the IDX batteries anyway and it does have the power tap. However maybe check it out on the IDX site or another camera store site just to make sure but I'm pretty sure that it would be there for you. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

January 29th, 2011, 09:48 AM	#20
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	You did well to chose the 700 over the S270, I had a 270 and found it a bit plasticky and the HDV codec is not very good now. Like all 1/3" chip camera's keep the aperture as wide open as possible to cut down the CA, I ended up going for the panasonic HPX301 and the 17x lens that it has is better than the TH16x. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

February 26th, 2011, 02:14 PM	#26
Lenny Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 55	Re: Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts??? Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit. It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger. Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere... I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i. I'm presuming I'm better on progressive? 24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

February 26th, 2011, 02:22 PM	#27
Lenny Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 55	Re: Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts??? Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit. It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger. Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere... I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i. I'm presuming I'm better on progressive? 24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

February 26th, 2011, 03:26 PM	#28
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Re: Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts??? Web and DVD is best shot 1920x1080i at 25p then down convert within your software to suit or keep it at 1080i 25p for web, don't bother with 24p at all as you are not doing cinema prints or international sales. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 26th, 2011, 10:58 AM	#16
Lenny Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 55	I read reviews that said the x16 Fujinon suffered from Chromatic Aberration, although I'm sure it was a pre production camera so that could have affected it. I'm waiting to hear about leasing, so fingers crossed. :-)

January 26th, 2011, 11:06 AM	#17
Lenny Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 55	Here's another thought, does the V-Lock mount have a D-tap connector to plug in a PAG light? I've specced it with IDX battery, but the PAG says it has a D-Tap adapter for powering the light?

January 28th, 2011, 06:07 AM	#19
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	It definitely has a D-Tap socket Max 50w, at least mine does, I'm looking at it right now. As for CA on the 16x Fujinon, I've never seen it on any footage I've edited. It may be something that can be seen on scopes, but I edit by eye so it's not been a problem I've been aware of.

January 30th, 2011, 01:17 PM	#21
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Hi Gary. I've read many of your posts so I know you are a knowledgeable guy so could you expand a little on why the x17 is better than the x16 apart from the obvious longer throw. I ask because I have seen a lot of comment about the x16 Fujinon, the original lens supplied with the HM700 I bought, and most of it was negative yet I've never really heard why, just that the ones supplied now are better. A while ago I did do a side by side comparison with a x14 Canon, the one that is now supplied as standard, and to be honest I couldn't see any difference in the quality of the image. Admittedly it was only a 'by eye' comparison. Is it sharper, brighter, smoother, or is it a subjective thing? Is there something I could look out for in my recorded footage that will show me where it is letting me down?

January 30th, 2011, 03:43 PM	#22
Les Howarth Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Manchester England Posts: 40	As someone still using a GY HD100 and upgraded the lens from the 16x last year to the Fujinion 17x last year. The 16x is not rubbish and is OK when not wide open and its a free starter with the camera so fair enuff. However having the 17x I can say its a different grade of lens, better contrast and sharpness, and more saturated colour and noticabely less flarey into the light. Less CA, but unlike the 100 series cameras those that came after have compensation for the vertical magenta-to-green tint that occurs when wide open or near wide open. It's still there on the 17x just about but far less - and only when wide open. Its quite a bit heavier too. I would also say that viewed directly on a monitor the 17x looks more obviously HD (compared with the SD output) than the 16x output so the resolution or fine detail contrast must be improved too. I may get a 700 body to put the 17x on later this year and use the 100 with 16x as a backup / B-cam.

January 30th, 2011, 04:43 PM	#23
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Thanks for that Les. Is this the lens you upgrade to - Fujinon TH17X5BRM-D29 1/3" ? Did you trade your x16? What was the cost of changing?

January 31st, 2011, 06:59 PM	#24
Les Howarth Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Manchester England Posts: 40	My box says TH17x5BRM-29. I think there are variations with different control options. The lens was a one-off "used only once" deal, someone bought it for a full manual lens with a Sony S270 and traded both back ultimately deciding to match his exisiting Panasonic P2 rather than have mixed systems. It was like new, better than a demonstrator. At the time - last summer I saw the 17x listed at anywhere between £1300-£1700, I got it for £1100-ish, just before the end of my accounting year so pretty happy. I see the 17x currently listing at £1499 +VAT so unless you really hate the 16x I would stick with it until the camera pays for a new one. For me it was a case of: do I want a new camera? - maybe..well actually I still like the looks from this one, but maybe I can make it better. I kept the 16x I don't believe it would really have any second-hand value as all the 1st and 2nd Generation JVC's came with one - I think its notional list price was about 700. If I do get a HM700 body later then 16x can go back on the HD100. Or if I change systems then I would resell the 17x, Basically it gives me sufficient improvement to stick with the system for another year or so while things are developing so fast.

February 1st, 2011, 02:30 AM	#25
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Thanks Les, very helpful.

February 28th, 2011, 02:38 PM	#29
Lenny Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 55	Re: Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts??? Sorry I double posted, my connection seemed to go down, not sure if it was website or my connection... so for dvd and web, am I ok at 50i, what benefit would I get at 25p??

March 1st, 2011, 03:41 AM	#30
James McBoyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 87	Re: Either JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, thoughts??? If you ever cover sport I'd suggest using 720p50 with your 700. It's what I use, and it makes watching football (soccer) so much nicer, plus you get smooth half-rate slo-mo for the goals as that is still 25 fps :-) Have Fun, Jim.