Filming a motorbike race...

[Richard Camble]

Hello everyone

This is my first post so please be gentle...

I am currently working on a 'behind the scenes' documentary on motorbike short circuit racing. Thus far this has all been shot using the 5D at 25fps 1920 x 1080 using L primes and external sound.

I've looked at filming a race but assuming this needs to be shot at 50fps to cope with the speed? This is gonna make the doc look naff when I flick from film look to tv look? I notice the 7D and 60D can both shoot at 29.97fps at 1920 x 1080 but again I assume 29.97fps will be no better at coping with speed!

Any suggestions?

Out of interest is there a standard camera/lens for motorsport racing acquisition?

[Andrew Stone]

Unless you are doing slooow pans, 30p (29.97) looks better. If this is ending up on the web 30p in general is better as well.

[Richard Camble]

Thanks for the reply Andrew.

I think cause I am used to watching eurosport (BSB, WSB, MotoGP) which I assume is 50 that 30 will look kinda strange and wont really suit racing?

What camera will eurosport be using?

[Richard Lucas]

My XH-A1 can shoot 30p or 24p but I never use it when shooting racing. I always shoot 60i.

Now, your piece is 25fps, and I'm assuming your shooting progressive. I think you can stay with that for the action. You could also shoot 50i but you'll probably lose half your res in the conversion to progressive. (I like interlaced for action because it gives me better slomo options, but there are tradeoffs.)

I think what you really want to watch is your shutter speed, but you probably already knew that. In sunlight, I'll go up to 1/500, but generally use 1/250. Others have said they'll go with a slower shutter than me and I think that's all about personal preference to get the desired look. I think you'll be OK with even a much slower shutter as long as you keep the bike in the same place in frame and have smoooooooooth pans. Have a very good tripod handy. Rent one if you need to. It will be worth it.

Hope that helps.

[Richard Camble]

Ok I will give it a whirl at 250/1....is there a standard focal length and f/ for racing? assuming all cameras are roughly the same distance away from the action.

[Bob Hart]

Fast shutter speeds will stylise the image with the stuttery look but will introduce risk of the rolling shutter artifact of skewed straight vertical edges on passing objects like sponsor and advertiser signage, marquees poles etc..

DOP Gavan O'Sullivan has discovered that with dutching the camera for a stylised football tightly framed action shot with a long lens, when camera is tilted in the direction of the pan follow, the vertical objects sweeping past the frame tended to appear vertical in the shot. Even though this is un-natural it seems to bury the artifact when there is fast-paced cutting in a television sports commercial style.

When panning in the opposite direction, the vertical objects appear more aggressively skewed but cut into the same frenetic style did not seem too apparent. This is my understanding of what he was doing.

It will likely not suit long continuous coverage of action around a short circular track so best to do your own experiments well beforehand.

Please take heed of the more accomplished of people than myself who respond.

[Brian Drysdale]

In the UK, unless for web, 25 fps is the way to go. Just be careful of rolling shutter skew, but this could be used creatively as suggested. Coming towards or away this will be less of an issue.

I worked on a film documentary on motor cycle road racing and we shot on everything from 10mm to 300mm, there isn't really a standard, just what looks good and how close you can get to the action. We left the Aaton camera unmanned on the grass verge of the road at the turns to catch the action as the bikes swept past. Less dangerous to the bikers than the telephone poles and stone walls with a hay bale in front of them

Unless you're after a "Saving Private Ryan" effect, I"d keep the shutter at 1/50 or there about.

[Stewart Menelaws]

Hi Richard – We shot former race champ Niall Mackenzie on a Yamaha R1 last year up at Knockhill Racing Circuit. We shot with a Sony PDW-700 and HD Zoom lens 25fps at 1/50th using various platforms to get different shots. You can have a read about it and see a short trailer here.

Studio Scotland Equipment Reviews: Sony XDCAM HD422

Best: Stu
Welcome to Studio Scotland

[Andrew Stone]

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

DOP Gavan O'Sullivan has discovered that with dutching the camera for a stylised football tightly framed action shot with a long lens, when camera is tilted in the direction of the pan follow, the vertical objects sweeping past the frame tended to appear vertical in the shot. Even though this is un-natural it seems to bury the artifact when there is fast-paced cutting in a television sports commercial style.

When panning in the opposite direction, the vertical objects appear more aggressively skewed but cut into the same frenetic style did not seem too apparent. This is my understanding of what he was doing.

That is fascinating and useful stuff Bob. Thanks for sharing that bit of knowledge.

[Gary Nattrass]

Just to add shooting 720p at 25fps with a shutter of 1/50th seems to be the standard for sport in the UK and europe!

I have tried to send you a PM but they are disabled as I can assist you with the shooting you require!