What is the pc nle equivalent to Mac Final Cut? at DVinfo.net

Kevin Lewis · January 10th, 2010, 06:51 PM

I am looking to upgrade my nle but want to stay on a windows platform. Final Cut seems to be an industry standard, but what nle is the pc equivalent to Macs Final Cut? I'm talking in terms of stability and overall capeabilities. I'm currently using Pinnacale Studio 12.

Gary Nattrass · January 10th, 2010, 07:01 PM

AVID is also an industry std for PC.

Adam Gold · January 10th, 2010, 07:22 PM

In terms of how it works and what it does, Premiere is for the PC what FCP is for the Mac. They were apparently written by the same guy.

Avid is not for humans.

But it depends upon what you are doing. FCP and Premiere are both more suited for short form material, while Avid is more commonly used for features, from what I've seen.

Perrone Ford · January 10th, 2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Avid is not for humans.

Ok, help me out here.

I've seen numerous comments like this about Avid. Yet it remains a film industry standard. I downloaded it a couple weeks ago for a trial expecting the worst after reading comments like this. I felt comfortable with it very quickly.

Steve Gabler · January 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM

Avid can be very expensive of course for the higher end products. It did not seem as difficult for me either. I would recommend Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere however. Vegas seems to support the most formats and is easiest to use. I use Premiere myself because I work with the whole Creative Suite; Photoshop, After Effects, Encore, etc. Download tryout versions and see what suits you best.

Adam Gold · January 10th, 2010, 07:57 PM

Perrone--

Um, it was sort of a joke. You're smarter than most, as evidenced by your posts around here, but the conventional wisdom is that Avid is still around really as a legacy product, hanging on from when it was the first/only NLE out there, and not designed, as you pointed out, with the computer user in mind, because there weren't any computer users yet.

But once you get the hang of it, it's apparently fine. I tried it and after a few hours, just burst into tears and uninstalled it. I felt like I was on Mars. But then, I feel the same way when I look at a Mac.

Jim Snow · January 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM

Interesting. Perrone, I wouldn't have placed much stock in your impressions of Vegas after two weeks of using its trial version either. You will get to know Avid's quirks and bugs soon enough. What you will also learn is that the biggest complaint that many have about AVID is that they spend an inordinate amount of energy preening for their stockholders and by comparison precious little on their customers. The quaint UI that you are so enamored with is described by many as an arcane relic from the past that the company is too cheap to update. They have been losing money for years. In fairness, your company (who is writing the check for it) needs to know that as well.

Please do us all a favor. Continue to share your impressions of Avid MC as you BEGIN to get to know it but spare us all of the pedantic remarks. We are all getting a little weary of it and we want the old Perrone back. We have very much appreciated all of the helpful advice that you have shared with us in the past but be careful to not let your hat size get too big. Describe your impressions of MC as you see them but you don't need to wrap your comments in snide criticisms of other products and users.

Vito DeFilippo · January 10th, 2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

the conventional wisdom is that Avid is still around really as a legacy product

Adam, no disrespect intended, but you should be careful chucking out comments like that. It's just so completely untrue. Do some research about Avid vs. Final Cut's penetration into broadcast and film editing. I think Apple has been better at marketing lately than Avid, but that doesn't make Final Cut a better NLE per se. Both are great professional programs with their own strengths and weaknesses.

From my own perspective, I started on Premiere (self-taught) moved on to Avid and found it easy to pick up. Last year I bought Final Cut and am still struggling to figure it out. It feels so slow compared to Avid that I want to slit my wrists when I'm using it. But I need to learn it because it's one of the two big NLEs, and an editor has to know both. There are things I feel Final Cut does better, and vice versa, but I still find Avid much easier and faster.

Chris Ficek · January 10th, 2010, 11:03 PM

I have to agree with my dear friend Vito, AVID rules and FCP drools. But with educational facilities turning out more and more FCP kids the new generation of editors are certainally leaning towards FCP. As for AVID no other NLE even comes close to its media management system. I think that whoever commented about the two handed style of editing nailed it, I can cut faster with the keyboard and mouse working together than I ever can just with the mouse.

Without a doubt FCP is a professional option but it seems all the big, award winning movies and broadcast are cut on AVID-theres a reason-- when $ are on the table and there are no excuses allowed pros choose the best. AVID workflows may not be the Swiss Army knife of editting, but when the job needs doing it delivers world class performance. With the new pricing structure for MC placing it in the same range as FCP it really should rise to the top of poularity again as it will become more accessible for new users. Not long ago MC was a $20k plus solution, now its under $2k for a software only workstation.

Try it, you'll like it.

Perrone Ford · January 10th, 2010, 11:50 PM

Jim I get it. You don't care for Avid. That's cool.

Brian Luce · January 11th, 2010, 12:04 AM

FCP is not the industry standard, Avid is.

If you want something like FCP in that works in a PC, the answer is FCP...in a Hackintosh. There's a dongle that makes running Leopard on a PC fairly easy.

Greg Boston · January 11th, 2010, 06:50 AM

Ok guys, time to dial it back a bit. We keep it friendly around here. As always, it's best to express your knowledge about a certain workflow, product, etc. without putting editorial on top of it.

Bottom line is, use what works for you and your needs or, the needs of your employer.

Thanks,

Greg Boston

Greg Boston · January 11th, 2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

Please do us all a favor.

The tone of your post won't be tolerated here either. If someone's post offends you, use the "Report Post" button located at the side of every post. This will alert Chris and the moderators to take a look and decide what action to take.

That's why I said you guys need to dial it back a few notches. lest it get out of control quickly.

Thanks,

Greg Boston

Chris Hurd · January 11th, 2010, 08:51 AM

You guys need to remember that DV Info Net is *not* your typical internet message board. It's really irritating
how some of you find your way in here from other forum sites, and you're bringing in the snark that you're used
to slinging around elsewhere on the web.

We don't do snark. Period. For those who insist on treating this place like all of the other sites out there, this is why
accounts get locked. I don't mind if you read DV Info Net, but if you want to post here, leave the attitude out of it.

Thread stays open for now, because I'm confident that those who get what we're all about will have something
helpful to say about the topic of discussion. Meanwhile, we're watching closely.

Kevin Lewis · January 11th, 2010, 08:55 AM

Well based on my interpretation and research that I have done, it appears that AVID, Adobe and Sony Vegas is on the top of the list. I currently use Pinnacle and Im wondering if the AVID work flow is somewhat similar since its in the same family. I downloaded a trial version of Edius which I liked, but it seems that not as many people are familer with it which may make it difficult if I need assistance with projects. Im sure that I could download trial versions of each, but getting to know each one could be quite time consuming. I guess I will have to do a little more research.

January 10th, 2010, 06:51 PM	#1
Kevin Lewis Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Philadelphia, pa Posts: 705	What is the pc nle equivalent to Mac Final Cut? I am looking to upgrade my nle but want to stay on a windows platform. Final Cut seems to be an industry standard, but what nle is the pc equivalent to Macs Final Cut? I'm talking in terms of stability and overall capeabilities. I'm currently using Pinnacale Studio 12.

January 10th, 2010, 07:01 PM	#2
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	AVID is also an industry std for PC. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 10th, 2010, 07:22 PM	#3
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	In terms of how it works and what it does, Premiere is for the PC what FCP is for the Mac. They were apparently written by the same guy. Avid is not for humans. But it depends upon what you are doing. FCP and Premiere are both more suited for short form material, while Avid is more commonly used for features, from what I've seen. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 10th, 2010, 07:57 PM	#6
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Perrone-- Um, it was sort of a joke. You're smarter than most, as evidenced by your posts around here, but the conventional wisdom is that Avid is still around really as a legacy product, hanging on from when it was the first/only NLE out there, and not designed, as you pointed out, with the computer user in mind, because there weren't any computer users yet. But once you get the hang of it, it's apparently fine. I tried it and after a few hours, just burst into tears and uninstalled it. I felt like I was on Mars. But then, I feel the same way when I look at a Mac. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 10th, 2010, 11:50 PM	#10
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Jim I get it. You don't care for Avid. That's cool. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels. Last edited by Perrone Ford; January 11th, 2010 at 08:33 AM.

January 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM	#5
Steve Gabler Tourist Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1	Avid can be very expensive of course for the higher end products. It did not seem as difficult for me either. I would recommend Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere however. Vegas seems to support the most formats and is easiest to use. I use Premiere myself because I work with the whole Creative Suite; Photoshop, After Effects, Encore, etc. Download tryout versions and see what suits you best.

January 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM	#7
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Interesting. Perrone, I wouldn't have placed much stock in your impressions of Vegas after two weeks of using its trial version either. You will get to know Avid's quirks and bugs soon enough. What you will also learn is that the biggest complaint that many have about AVID is that they spend an inordinate amount of energy preening for their stockholders and by comparison precious little on their customers. The quaint UI that you are so enamored with is described by many as an arcane relic from the past that the company is too cheap to update. They have been losing money for years. In fairness, your company (who is writing the check for it) needs to know that as well. Please do us all a favor. Continue to share your impressions of Avid MC as you BEGIN to get to know it but spare us all of the pedantic remarks. We are all getting a little weary of it and we want the old Perrone back. We have very much appreciated all of the helpful advice that you have shared with us in the past but be careful to not let your hat size get too big. Describe your impressions of MC as you see them but you don't need to wrap your comments in snide criticisms of other products and users.

January 10th, 2010, 11:03 PM	#9
Chris Ficek Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 113	I have to agree with my dear friend Vito, AVID rules and FCP drools. But with educational facilities turning out more and more FCP kids the new generation of editors are certainally leaning towards FCP. As for AVID no other NLE even comes close to its media management system. I think that whoever commented about the two handed style of editing nailed it, I can cut faster with the keyboard and mouse working together than I ever can just with the mouse. Without a doubt FCP is a professional option but it seems all the big, award winning movies and broadcast are cut on AVID-theres a reason-- when $ are on the table and there are no excuses allowed pros choose the best. AVID workflows may not be the Swiss Army knife of editting, but when the job needs doing it delivers world class performance. With the new pricing structure for MC placing it in the same range as FCP it really should rise to the top of poularity again as it will become more accessible for new users. Not long ago MC was a $20k plus solution, now its under $2k for a software only workstation. Try it, you'll like it.

January 11th, 2010, 12:04 AM	#11
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	FCP is not the industry standard, Avid is. If you want something like FCP in that works in a PC, the answer is FCP...in a Hackintosh. There's a dongle that makes running Leopard on a PC fairly easy.

January 11th, 2010, 06:50 AM	#12
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Ok guys, time to dial it back a bit. We keep it friendly around here. As always, it's best to express your knowledge about a certain workflow, product, etc. without putting editorial on top of it. Bottom line is, use what works for you and your needs or, the needs of your employer. Thanks, Greg Boston

January 11th, 2010, 08:51 AM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	You guys need to remember that DV Info Net is not your typical internet message board. It's really irritating how some of you find your way in here from other forum sites, and you're bringing in the snark that you're used to slinging around elsewhere on the web. We don't do snark. Period. For those who insist on treating this place like all of the other sites out there, this is why accounts get locked. I don't mind if you read DV Info Net, but if you want to post here, leave the attitude out of it. Thread stays open for now, because I'm confident that those who get what we're all about will have something helpful to say about the topic of discussion. Meanwhile, we're watching closely. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 11th, 2010, 08:55 AM	#15
Kevin Lewis Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Philadelphia, pa Posts: 705	Well based on my interpretation and research that I have done, it appears that AVID, Adobe and Sony Vegas is on the top of the list. I currently use Pinnacle and Im wondering if the AVID work flow is somewhat similar since its in the same family. I downloaded a trial version of Edius which I liked, but it seems that not as many people are familer with it which may make it difficult if I need assistance with projects. Im sure that I could download trial versions of each, but getting to know each one could be quite time consuming. I guess I will have to do a little more research.