Size of CCD chips at DVinfo.net

Clint Grant · June 27th, 2005, 12:17 PM

Hello everybody. I have another basic, terribly newbie question, but I have to know. What difference does the size of CCD chips have on a camera? For example, a Canon Xl1s has 1/3 size chips, while GL2 has 1/4 size chips (I think). This difference causes some people to buy the XL1s over the GL2. Thanks for any help, Clint Grant

Matt Irwin · June 27th, 2005, 02:18 PM

A larger chip (usually) means higher capture resolution-- there is more "real estate" to fit pixels into (don't confuse caprture res with image resolution: all SD video from miniDV to DVCPro50 to DigiBeta is 720x480). Larger chips also have a shorter depth of field which is associated with a "filmic" look if utilized.
Professional camcorders usually have 1/2" or 2/3" chips, as well as a better and wider selection of lenses. The XL cameras are also attractive to many for their ability to use a wide variety of lenses via an adaptor, among other reasons.
Hope this helps.

Joshua Provost · June 27th, 2005, 02:19 PM

Bigger chip generally means better low-light performance (of course that is assuming the same number of pixels, but a larger chip).

Clint Grant · June 27th, 2005, 05:32 PM

Thanks to you both for confirming that for me. I was just unclear on the logic of the chip size. Thanks agin, Clint Grant

Chris Hurd · June 27th, 2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Larger chips also have a shorter depth of field

Woah, hold on there... image sensors have no "depth of field" at all. Depth of field (DoF) is an optical property of a lens. There is no direct relationship between CCD size and DoF... only an indirect relationship. See this link for more info about DoF:

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/optics/dofskinny.php

Matt Irwin · June 27th, 2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Woah, hold on there... image sensors have no "depth of field" at all. Depth of field (DoF) is an optical property of a lens. There is no direct relationship between CCD size and DoF... only an indirect relationship. See this link for more info about DoF:

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/optics/dofskinny.php

I know. I worded that poorly, probably in an attempt to be concise. oops. heh.
Thanks for keeping me in check, Chris.

Laurence Kingston · July 2nd, 2005, 10:12 AM

I always thought larger CCDs meant shorter depth of field too, and I know I've seen it in print many times. None the less i realize you are right. It's just that camcorders with bigger CCDs tend to allow shorter depth of field f-stop settings because they need less light. In actual practice this means you can usually get shorter depth of field with a larger CCD camera.

Ash Greyson · July 2nd, 2005, 11:43 AM

The technical jargon doesnt really matter... a 2/3" CCD camera has a better DOF than smaller chip cameras. As mentioned above, just the fact that it allows more light in, allows for a better DOF, even if similar lenses were used...

ash =o)

Andre De Clercq · July 2nd, 2005, 12:17 PM

For the same f-number and the same subject size, the larger the sensor (CCD) is, the lower the Dof

Chris Hurd · July 2nd, 2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

a better DOF

Oops... Ash... be careful how you describe that. "Better" is a relative term. For some folks, "better" will mean a deep focal plane (like Citizen Kane), and for others it will mean a shallow focal plane. Around here it's much more helpful to describe things in absolutes rather than superlatives -- thanks,

Joshua Provost · July 2nd, 2005, 01:32 PM

Yes, bigger means shallower. 1/3" about the same as 8mm film; 2/3" like 16mm. You'd need about 1 1/3" to equal the shallow depth of field of 35mm film.

June 27th, 2005, 12:17 PM	#1
Clint Grant Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 125	Size of CCD chips Hello everybody. I have another basic, terribly newbie question, but I have to know. What difference does the size of CCD chips have on a camera? For example, a Canon Xl1s has 1/3 size chips, while GL2 has 1/4 size chips (I think). This difference causes some people to buy the XL1s over the GL2. Thanks for any help, Clint Grant

June 27th, 2005, 02:18 PM	#2
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	A larger chip (usually) means higher capture resolution-- there is more "real estate" to fit pixels into (don't confuse caprture res with image resolution: all SD video from miniDV to DVCPro50 to DigiBeta is 720x480). Larger chips also have a shorter depth of field which is associated with a "filmic" look if utilized. Professional camcorders usually have 1/2" or 2/3" chips, as well as a better and wider selection of lenses. The XL cameras are also attractive to many for their ability to use a wide variety of lenses via an adaptor, among other reasons. Hope this helps. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

June 27th, 2005, 02:19 PM	#3
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Bigger chip generally means better low-light performance (of course that is assuming the same number of pixels, but a larger chip). __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

June 27th, 2005, 05:32 PM	#4
Clint Grant Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 125	Thanks A Lot Thanks to you both for confirming that for me. I was just unclear on the logic of the chip size. Thanks agin, Clint Grant

July 2nd, 2005, 01:32 PM	#11
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Yes, bigger means shallower. 1/3" about the same as 8mm film; 2/3" like 16mm. You'd need about 1 1/3" to equal the shallow depth of field of 35mm film. __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

July 2nd, 2005, 10:12 AM	#7
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	I always thought larger CCDs meant shorter depth of field too, and I know I've seen it in print many times. None the less i realize you are right. It's just that camcorders with bigger CCDs tend to allow shorter depth of field f-stop settings because they need less light. In actual practice this means you can usually get shorter depth of field with a larger CCD camera.

July 2nd, 2005, 11:43 AM	#8
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	The technical jargon doesnt really matter... a 2/3" CCD camera has a better DOF than smaller chip cameras. As mentioned above, just the fact that it allows more light in, allows for a better DOF, even if similar lenses were used... ash =o)

July 2nd, 2005, 12:17 PM	#9
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	For the same f-number and the same subject size, the larger the sensor (CCD) is, the lower the Dof