Best $5,000 HDV camcorder? Looking to upgrade...

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

He'd still need a lens, a decent microphone, a viewfinder, another lens, a matte-box, filters and one of those funky shoulder mounts.

two 7Ds, with an 18-85 IS EF-S lens each, would fit in the $5k range. So would a couple Nikon 50mm f1.4s. And a Zoom H4.

He's going to need external audio for any camera he buys, that's got nothing to do with the camera budget. Same for viewfinder, mattebox and filters, not needed JUST because it is a DSLR. As for the shoulder mounts... the camera isn't exactly a brick, and works perfectly fine without them. A $40 monopod goes a long way.

Bottom line... you end up with a camera that can almost see in the dark, puts out beautiful shallow DOF, and most importantly for street shooting, is almost invisible to passers by. Especially considering you can get TWO CAMERAS for the price of one.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

take the guts of their Z5, and re-engineer it to offer a choice of recording, using either AVCHD

Good point Robert, I like it. I see they've done something similar in recognising the Z5's good points by selling it in some markets as the DVCAM PD175.

But back to Ricky's first post. If you put a Z7 alongside an HMC150 you'll immediately see, feel, smell and hear why the Z7 costs a lot more than the HMC. It has a build quality that sets it apart, and even if you never plan to buy another lens I'd say the ergonomics and handling rate it as the one to go for.

Of course others here have raised valid points as to why you should spread your wings and look further afield, but if I look at your two choices I see the Z7 as a second generation HDV - a hugely refined and improved Z1, taking HDV to new heights and getting its low light performance back on top.

I look at the HMC and see the early DVX100 - a camera crying out for the improvements brought about by the rapidly introduced A and then the B models.

tom.

[Robert M Wright]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

I look at the HMC and see the early DVX100 - a camera crying out for the improvements brought about by the rapidly introduced A and then the B models.

I do have a desire to go tapeless, but, as much as I'm tempted, I'm not about to jump on an HMC150 anytime soon. As attractive a first "serious" AVCHD camera offering as the HMC150 appears to be, I've got to think it likely we may see some very competitive offerings in the not-to-distant future (my eye is on Canon). It's not like I feel my XH-A1 is inadequate for the time being either. I've got to say, I was also really put off by the HMC150 price increase (that sort of crap cools my heels in a hurry). I am intrigued by the HMC40, especially at the price point at which it is being introduced. We'll see how well it is received, when some real shooters actually get their hands on it and put it to the acid test (of real world usage).

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

You know, if Sony were to essentially take the guts of their Z5, and re-engineer it to offer a choice of recording, using either AVCHD or XDCAM (like EX1 or JVC's new cams) encoding, to SDHC cards (I'd actually prefer CF though), they could have one heck of a big seller.

That sounds a lot like the EX1 to me. It gives you a choice of either HDV, XDCAM and XDCAM HQ formats and can use SDHC cards with an inexpensive 3rd party adaptor. Or was your point more related to the price than the feature set?

[Robert M Wright]

The EX1 only offers MPEG-2 encoding (of various flavors though). Personally, I'd find it quite attractive to have the choice of MPEG-2 (at higher than HDV bitrates) as well as the (bitwise) more efficient choice of AVC encoding when smaller file size is desired. I also look at that choice favorably, as a bridge of sorts, while CPU power and software closes the gap in ease of editing between MPEG-2 and AVC. My thoughts there were also focused more at 3-1/3" chip camera category. It would also be nice to see some real alternatives to the EX1, for 3-1/2" chip cameras, utilizing any reasonably comparable codec, image quality wise (and also with reasonably comparable affordability to the EX1).

[Tom Hardwick]

A good point Robert - we could do with more competition in the ½" chipset category, as at the moment choosing this chip size effectively lands you with only one brochure and the price chosen by Sony obviously reflects this lack of competition.

If 1"/3 chips are your menu heading then you're spoilt for choice, and everyone is after your dollar. This competition brings a vast range of models, from the JVC700 to the HMC151.

tom.

[Ricky Breslin]

Excellent stuff everyone. I really like what I see with the EX1 and may possibly get it. I already have an great audio setup, tripod, lighting, so I really feel I just need to step up my video game and the EX1 seems it will do that.

I was recommended the HMC-150 also by a few stores but would definitely buy the EX1 over that any day.

[Dan Brockett]

I shoot with the EX1 quite a bit. It is extremely sharp and decent in low light. A nice camera to be sure. But it has the worst ergonomics of any camera on the market, the menus are confusing if you come from the Panasonic/JVC/Canon world and the XDCAM EX codec is not my favorite. And you must shoot with awareness of the limitations of a CMOS imager and rolling shutter.

A good camera though, the lens and LCD are the best in it's class.

Dan

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

But it has the worst ergonomics of any camera on the market

I've read this in more than one place, so I was prepared for the worst when I got the EX1. It is not very well balanced and pushes the limits for a "handycam" in terms of weight, but that's not a big deal for me. I never liked my Z1 as a handheld either. Once you put it on a tripod, it's a non-issue.

I think it's great that Sony put 1/2" chips into a package about the same size as my Z1, and it can easily be carried on an airplane. I don't know why other companies haven't come up with any competition, so I have to conclude they feel it wouldn't be profitable. They have certainly had plenty of time since the EX1's introduction to respond.

Other ergonomic issues, such as the placement of buttons, don't strike me as any worse than the other Sony camcorders I've owned. The focus and iris rings are terrific. Menu's don't bother me either (coming from a Sony background) and in fact the Direct Menu function is great - you use the joystick to select and change any parameter shown on the screen without digging into the menus.

It is certainly not a camera for everybody, but I'm a satisfied customer myself.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Ricky Breslin

I was recommended the HMC-150 also by a few stores but would definitely buy the EX1 over that any day.

Quite so, but then you could have two 150s for the price of an EX1 + SxS. Boyd make a good point that other manufacturers have left Sony with this open door to our ½'' hearts.