shooting projected super 8 at DVinfo.net

Graham Jones · January 14th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Hi,

I've asked this question in some Super 8 forums too but thought it would be good to ask here.

Anyone shot Super 8 off the wall with a video camera?

I need to shoot 3 mins of Kodachrome 40 that was shot at 24, with a 25p video camera at true 16:9

Advice would be appreciated.

Graham

Graham Jones · January 14th, 2005, 07:30 PM

Please note - there is a reason I can't have it professionally transferred, relating to video formats. Have to capture it with my video camera..

Richard Alvarez · January 14th, 2005, 08:07 PM

I've done the "poor mans telecine" a number of times, but not with that specific frame rate.

The problem is, that you will encounter flicker when the shutters don't match up. To avoid that problem, it's best to have a variable speed projector to "tune" the picture to avoid the flicker.

Aside from that, you need to set the camera and projector up to minimize the parallax. This is done by putting the two lenses as close together as you can on either the same vertical or horizontal axis, and getting as far away from the screen as you can, to still get the exposure you need. Distance from the screen will help minize "grain" and hot spots from beaded screens, or irregularities on the wall.

Good luck

Graham Jones · January 15th, 2005, 07:55 AM

Thanks, that's helpful.

The piece is meant to portray late sixties, so flicker, grain etc. won't be entirely unwelcome - though I will make sure to do those things you mentionned.

Is there a danger of those horrible rising lines you get when you video video? With 24 S8 shot with 25p video? Or is that a video video thing?

Richard Alvarez · January 15th, 2005, 08:24 AM

No. You're confusing scan lines with frame rates.

You can find plenty of good companies that will transfer your stuff direct to video at reasonable prices. Moviestuff is one, do a search. They use special projectors and lenses to get the full frame, each frame captured as a seperate file.

Graham Jones · January 15th, 2005, 11:16 AM

No Richard, as I have said just above 'there is a reason I can't have it professionally transferred, relating to video formats. Have to capture it with my video camera..'

Also said 'flicker, grain etc. won't be entirely unwelcome...' so filming it off the wall is the answer for me - especially now that I'm not confused about rising lines.

Thanks.

Dean Sensui · January 16th, 2005, 03:17 AM

Use a piece of smooth, matte white poster board. Keep the image as small as practical to make it as bright as possible. Set your focus using the edge of the matte board as a guide. Perhaps outline it with a permanent marker to make it more apparent.

Use a camera that has a "clear scan" feature and you can adjust the camera's frame rate to sync with the projector.

Align the camera alongside the projector as closely as possible to minimize keystoning. Here's where there's a bit of a conundrum: Keeping the projector closer to the screen brightens the image but pulling the projector further away minimizes keystoning.

If you need to white balance, then you can do it by projecting through clear film and setting your white balance that way. If it's old film you may not be able to do this, but you can color correct in post.

Hope this helps.
Dean Sensui
Hawaii Goes Fishing
www.HawaiiGoesFishing.com

Chris Hurd · January 16th, 2005, 12:01 PM

I'm in the middle of doing this myself. As mentioned above, a major component of the process is a projector with a variable speed potentiometer. I found mine on Ebay (which is a good source for that sort of thing), a Canon S400 switchable between regular 8mm and Super 8. The variable-speed projectors tend to fetch a bit more money, so be prepared. I shelled out more than $80 for mine but it's in like-new condition; a real keeper. The vari pot allows you to precisely match speeds and dial in, or out, however much or little flicker you desire.

Graham Jones · January 16th, 2005, 12:09 PM

beautiful

Phil Holder · January 17th, 2005, 02:33 AM

Graham
I use a peice of brilliant white matte paper but I have heard that you can also get good results using light grey. Keep the image to about the size of an A4 sheet of paper. Some say to set the white balance on the camera to daylight but you will need to experiment. Use a 1/50 shutter speed on your camera. It's also an idea to plug the video out of your camera into your tv. Then you can see and ajust levels, focus etc. I don't think you will ever get rid of the flicker, as at 25fps 50Hz Pal the projector would have to run at about 16 & 2/3 fps, apparently!
Hope this helps

Mike Cavanaugh · January 18th, 2005, 09:49 AM

One additional tip: If possible, don't put the camera above the projector. I found that placing the camera BELOW the projector will eliminate waivering image due to the heat of the projector.

January 14th, 2005, 07:29 PM	#1
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	shooting projected super 8 Hi, I've asked this question in some Super 8 forums too but thought it would be good to ask here. Anyone shot Super 8 off the wall with a video camera? I need to shoot 3 mins of Kodachrome 40 that was shot at 24, with a 25p video camera at true 16:9 Advice would be appreciated. Graham __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 14th, 2005, 07:30 PM	#2
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Please note - there is a reason I can't have it professionally transferred, relating to video formats. Have to capture it with my video camera.. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 15th, 2005, 07:55 AM	#4
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Thanks, that's helpful. The piece is meant to portray late sixties, so flicker, grain etc. won't be entirely unwelcome - though I will make sure to do those things you mentionned. Is there a danger of those horrible rising lines you get when you video video? With 24 S8 shot with 25p video? Or is that a video video thing? __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 15th, 2005, 11:16 AM	#6
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	No Richard, as I have said just above 'there is a reason I can't have it professionally transferred, relating to video formats. Have to capture it with my video camera..' Also said 'flicker, grain etc. won't be entirely unwelcome...' so filming it off the wall is the answer for me - especially now that I'm not confused about rising lines. Thanks. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 16th, 2005, 12:01 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I'm in the middle of doing this myself. As mentioned above, a major component of the process is a projector with a variable speed potentiometer. I found mine on Ebay (which is a good source for that sort of thing), a Canon S400 switchable between regular 8mm and Super 8. The variable-speed projectors tend to fetch a bit more money, so be prepared. I shelled out more than $80 for mine but it's in like-new condition; a real keeper. The vari pot allows you to precisely match speeds and dial in, or out, however much or little flicker you desire. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 14th, 2005, 08:07 PM	#3
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I've done the "poor mans telecine" a number of times, but not with that specific frame rate. The problem is, that you will encounter flicker when the shutters don't match up. To avoid that problem, it's best to have a variable speed projector to "tune" the picture to avoid the flicker. Aside from that, you need to set the camera and projector up to minimize the parallax. This is done by putting the two lenses as close together as you can on either the same vertical or horizontal axis, and getting as far away from the screen as you can, to still get the exposure you need. Distance from the screen will help minize "grain" and hot spots from beaded screens, or irregularities on the wall. Good luck

January 15th, 2005, 08:24 AM	#5
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	No. You're confusing scan lines with frame rates. You can find plenty of good companies that will transfer your stuff direct to video at reasonable prices. Moviestuff is one, do a search. They use special projectors and lenses to get the full frame, each frame captured as a seperate file.

January 16th, 2005, 03:17 AM	#7
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Use a piece of smooth, matte white poster board. Keep the image as small as practical to make it as bright as possible. Set your focus using the edge of the matte board as a guide. Perhaps outline it with a permanent marker to make it more apparent. Use a camera that has a "clear scan" feature and you can adjust the camera's frame rate to sync with the projector. Align the camera alongside the projector as closely as possible to minimize keystoning. Here's where there's a bit of a conundrum: Keeping the projector closer to the screen brightens the image but pulling the projector further away minimizes keystoning. If you need to white balance, then you can do it by projecting through clear film and setting your white balance that way. If it's old film you may not be able to do this, but you can color correct in post. Hope this helps. Dean Sensui Hawaii Goes Fishing www.HawaiiGoesFishing.com

January 16th, 2005, 12:09 PM	#9
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	beautiful __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 17th, 2005, 02:33 AM	#10
Phil Holder Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 70	Graham I use a peice of brilliant white matte paper but I have heard that you can also get good results using light grey. Keep the image to about the size of an A4 sheet of paper. Some say to set the white balance on the camera to daylight but you will need to experiment. Use a 1/50 shutter speed on your camera. It's also an idea to plug the video out of your camera into your tv. Then you can see and ajust levels, focus etc. I don't think you will ever get rid of the flicker, as at 25fps 50Hz Pal the projector would have to run at about 16 & 2/3 fps, apparently! Hope this helps

January 18th, 2005, 09:49 AM	#11
Mike Cavanaugh Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Albany NY Posts: 311	One additional tip: If possible, don't put the camera above the projector. I found that placing the camera BELOW the projector will eliminate waivering image due to the heat of the projector.