b&w video at DVinfo.net

Donald Pittelli · December 12th, 2004, 02:35 PM

question ? i can make video b&d at edit . but lets say i want to play with the video a little . like change sky for more detail .would it be effective to take the video in b&w with filters or try to get the effect i want in edit .and if so would you just lowwer all the color settings lets say on dvx 100 or xl2 . thanks dp

Glenn Chan · December 12th, 2004, 02:40 PM

I would shoot in color as this will give your more options in post. Sometimes selecting just one channel of color or two (R, G, B) will give much nicer results.

The advantage to shooting black and white however is that you can see what you're going to get on the shoot. Of course, you could just turn down the saturation on your video monitor or use/rent a B+W monitor.

Donald Pittelli · December 12th, 2004, 05:22 PM

one more question ? suppose i wanted to use a red or green filter witch will affect b&w in diffrent ways will it have the same effect on color if i make it b&w in edit . thanks dp

Rob Lohman · December 14th, 2004, 09:12 AM

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Donald Pittelli · December 14th, 2004, 01:41 PM

i am going to play arround with some b&w and color with filters and see how it turns out . thanks again dp

Joe Gioielli · December 16th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Also, read "The Negative" by Ansel Adams. When you use the color filters, also try the polarizer.

I've converted color to b/w and shot in b/w. If you shoot in color, don't be afraid to play with the contrast before you desaturate. Turn it way up and see the effect.

Now if you shoot in b/w you will have an easier time with the "Zone System." Warning! you will need a light meter to do it. But you get good results with his system. It's all in the book. The "Zone System" sounds complicated, but think of it as "white balancing" with "middle grey."

You can also apply filters to decrease the sharpness of the image. For my taste, I like b/w to remond me more of velvet than stainless steel. There is a very odd film entitled "The Marathon" that, AFAIK, was shot on b/w video. It is so sharp that I find it distracting.

Try lots of different things. Video is cheap and you can always use the "undo" button.

Joe

Donald Pittelli · December 16th, 2004, 08:15 PM

i have been playing with a few things both video and stills .i think Mr Lohman was right if you use a filter on color or b&w they look much the same at edit if you convert the color to a b&w that is .you know what i mean . thanks again dp

John Gaspain · December 16th, 2004, 09:37 PM

It should be the same if changed in post

Michael Bernstein · December 18th, 2004, 03:51 PM

It seems to me--correct me if I'm wrong here--that if you filter optically at the time of shoot with e.g. a red filter to get start contrast between cloud and sky, and if you expose properly at time of shoot, this will give you more information in your DV stream.

Thoughts on the physics of this?

Michael

Donald Pittelli · December 18th, 2004, 08:06 PM

maybe so but i think Mr Lohman is right . whether b&w or color when using a filter the results seem to be the same . one thing i did notice is that i have a few rolls of b&w 35mm that i have taken over the past few years the digital whether video or still dose not come close . maybe if i had better equipment . well anywat thank you dp

Jesse Bekas · December 20th, 2004, 12:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Donald Pittelli :...one thing i did notice is that i have a few rolls of b&w 35mm that i have taken over the past few years the digital whether video or still dose not come close . maybe if i had better equipment . well anywat thank you dp -->>>

I think a 35mm negative has something like 13-20MP worth of resolution, so until a digital still cam approaches that (and some prosumer ones have), a digital pic won't hold up to 35mm.

In the case of 35mm vs. DV, resolution again plays a huge part, but also there is a stark difference in dynamic range abilities, film obviously having more range, making it look better.

December 12th, 2004, 02:35 PM	#1
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	b&w video question ? i can make video b&d at edit . but lets say i want to play with the video a little . like change sky for more detail .would it be effective to take the video in b&w with filters or try to get the effect i want in edit .and if so would you just lowwer all the color settings lets say on dvx 100 or xl2 . thanks dp __________________ dp

December 12th, 2004, 05:22 PM	#3
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	thank you very much Glenn one more question ? suppose i wanted to use a red or green filter witch will affect b&w in diffrent ways will it have the same effect on color if i make it b&w in edit . thanks dp __________________ dp

December 14th, 2004, 09:12 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	To the best of my knowledge, yes. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 14th, 2004, 01:41 PM	#5
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	thank you i am going to play arround with some b&w and color with filters and see how it turns out . thanks again dp __________________ dp

December 16th, 2004, 07:06 PM	#6
Joe Gioielli Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Port Richey, Fl Posts: 142	Also, read "The Negative" by Ansel Adams. When you use the color filters, also try the polarizer. I've converted color to b/w and shot in b/w. If you shoot in color, don't be afraid to play with the contrast before you desaturate. Turn it way up and see the effect. Now if you shoot in b/w you will have an easier time with the "Zone System." Warning! you will need a light meter to do it. But you get good results with his system. It's all in the book. The "Zone System" sounds complicated, but think of it as "white balancing" with "middle grey." You can also apply filters to decrease the sharpness of the image. For my taste, I like b/w to remond me more of velvet than stainless steel. There is a very odd film entitled "The Marathon" that, AFAIK, was shot on b/w video. It is so sharp that I find it distracting. Try lots of different things. Video is cheap and you can always use the "undo" button. Joe __________________ Why ask me? I thought you were in charge!

December 12th, 2004, 02:40 PM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I would shoot in color as this will give your more options in post. Sometimes selecting just one channel of color or two (R, G, B) will give much nicer results. The advantage to shooting black and white however is that you can see what you're going to get on the shoot. Of course, you could just turn down the saturation on your video monitor or use/rent a B+W monitor.

December 16th, 2004, 08:15 PM	#7
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	thanks Joe i have been playing with a few things both video and stills .i think Mr Lohman was right if you use a filter on color or b&w they look much the same at edit if you convert the color to a b&w that is .you know what i mean . thanks again dp __________________ dp

December 16th, 2004, 09:37 PM	#8
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	It should be the same if changed in post __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

December 18th, 2004, 03:51 PM	#9
Michael Bernstein Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 114	It seems to me--correct me if I'm wrong here--that if you filter optically at the time of shoot with e.g. a red filter to get start contrast between cloud and sky, and if you expose properly at time of shoot, this will give you more information in your DV stream. Thoughts on the physics of this? Michael __________________ Michael Bernstein, actor & film maker. 10 films in 10 weeks: www.amplecatnap.com

December 18th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#10
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	thanks for your post maybe so but i think Mr Lohman is right . whether b&w or color when using a filter the results seem to be the same . one thing i did notice is that i have a few rolls of b&w 35mm that i have taken over the past few years the digital whether video or still dose not come close . maybe if i had better equipment . well anywat thank you dp __________________ dp

December 20th, 2004, 12:20 AM	#11
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Re: thanks for your post <<<-- Originally posted by Donald Pittelli :...one thing i did notice is that i have a few rolls of b&w 35mm that i have taken over the past few years the digital whether video or still dose not come close . maybe if i had better equipment . well anywat thank you dp -->>> I think a 35mm negative has something like 13-20MP worth of resolution, so until a digital still cam approaches that (and some prosumer ones have), a digital pic won't hold up to 35mm. In the case of 35mm vs. DV, resolution again plays a huge part, but also there is a stark difference in dynamic range abilities, film obviously having more range, making it look better.