Beautiful slo-mo on Formula 1?? at DVinfo.net

Dan Uneken · August 31st, 2002, 10:35 AM

Looking at F-1 Grand Prix live broadcasts, you get these fantastic slow motion repeats of cars cornering over the curbstones with the rubber vibrating back and forth. Must be at least 10% of orginal or slower. Someone who knows nothing about TV said: that is 100 Hertz television. Perhaps he does know more than I do?
Can anyone throw light on this? I find the slo-mo out of Premiere stuttering and ugly, especially if different than 50% or 25%

Daniel Carrico · August 31st, 2002, 11:57 AM

Hey Dan,

To get really good slow motion, I would suggest using another program such as Realviz Retimer (www.realviz.com) or a plugin such as REVision Effects ReelSmart Twixtor (http://www.revisionfx.com). If you check out the gallery section on the Twixtor site, they have some footage created for the movie "Driven" which shows some type of race car crashing. I am sure you could obtain the desired effects that you want with either of these. I hope this helps!

Barry Goyette · August 31st, 2002, 12:30 PM

My guess without seeing the footage is that they were probably shooting with a variable framerate camera (I think panasonic makes one in the $60,000 range),a 60fps 480p camera, or perhaps on a high speed film camera to get the effect. There is only so much a software interpolation scheme can achieve with 60i footage...50% framerate--great...25%--marginal...10%--- blurry slide show.

Barry

Charles Papert · August 31st, 2002, 12:37 PM

Dan:

The broadcast "super slo mo" system incorporates special cameras and disk recorders that are capable of capturing more frames per second and playing them back live. The system I am familiar with uses a Thomsen camera to achieve these effects. Playing a standard television signal (NTSC or PAL) back at slow motion reveals the gaps between the frames which creates the stuttering effect. Short of gaining access to one of the broadcast setups (vastly pricey!), the answer is a software-based interpolater such as Daniel suggests.

For field production work, there are cameras starting to crop up that will produce variable frame rates such as the Panasonic Varicam. It's probably only a few years away that we will see these features translate into the under $10,000 camera market.

Justin Chin · August 31st, 2002, 12:40 PM

I've heard that they use a digital frame buffer that stores the playback images they need for slow mo. Anyone here know more than I do about it?

Those cameras and lenses they use are just insane. Can you imagine what it takes to zoom all the way across the outfield all the way to home plate, with the runner on second, the pitcher AND the batter all in focus? Now THATS some huge depth of field. Plus, they're rock steady.

Justin Chin · August 31st, 2002, 12:43 PM

Charles:
Quickdraw! Let me guess, it's your day off and you're just relaxing in front of the computer. heh.

Charles Papert · August 31st, 2002, 06:10 PM

Yeah, long weekend off. Knocking around the DVinfo site is an excellent way to procrastinate getting work done around the house etc...

Dan Uneken · September 1st, 2002, 04:11 AM

Thanks lads. I'll stick with interpolation.

Simon Plissi · September 2nd, 2002, 03:00 AM

A recent edit involved slowing down DV footage shot inside a moving car. At first I was apprehensive as to how successful slowing this down would look so I first tried 50%. Wow, I was really pleased with the look so went back and re-did all the slow-mo down to 25% without any stuttering.

Whilst this probably doesn't help you as you say you use Premier I did all this in FCP3. The reason I was apprehensive at first was that I too remember how Premier's slow-mo looks. FCP3's slow-mo with frame blending looks great. I've heard how those third party apps/plugins produce a much better effect yet I was still really pleased with quality of FCP. If you can do your slow-mo in FCP then I do recommend you at least give it a go.

August 31st, 2002, 10:35 AM	#1
Dan Uneken Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Andalucia, Spain Posts: 301	Beautiful slo-mo on Formula 1?? Looking at F-1 Grand Prix live broadcasts, you get these fantastic slow motion repeats of cars cornering over the curbstones with the rubber vibrating back and forth. Must be at least 10% of orginal or slower. Someone who knows nothing about TV said: that is 100 Hertz television. Perhaps he does know more than I do? Can anyone throw light on this? I find the slo-mo out of Premiere stuttering and ugly, especially if different than 50% or 25% __________________ Film & TV locations & production Spain http://www.fotofilmvideo.com/

August 31st, 2002, 11:57 AM	#2
Daniel Carrico New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 19	Hey Dan, To get really good slow motion, I would suggest using another program such as Realviz Retimer (www.realviz.com) or a plugin such as REVision Effects ReelSmart Twixtor (http://www.revisionfx.com). If you check out the gallery section on the Twixtor site, they have some footage created for the movie "Driven" which shows some type of race car crashing. I am sure you could obtain the desired effects that you want with either of these. I hope this helps! __________________ Daniel M. Carrico www.danielcarrico.com daniel1113[at]comcast[dot]net "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice." - Joseph Dunninger (Mentalist/Magician)

August 31st, 2002, 12:37 PM	#4
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Dan: The broadcast "super slo mo" system incorporates special cameras and disk recorders that are capable of capturing more frames per second and playing them back live. The system I am familiar with uses a Thomsen camera to achieve these effects. Playing a standard television signal (NTSC or PAL) back at slow motion reveals the gaps between the frames which creates the stuttering effect. Short of gaining access to one of the broadcast setups (vastly pricey!), the answer is a software-based interpolater such as Daniel suggests. For field production work, there are cameras starting to crop up that will produce variable frame rates such as the Panasonic Varicam. It's probably only a few years away that we will see these features translate into the under $10,000 camera market. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 31st, 2002, 12:40 PM	#5
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	I've heard that they use a digital frame buffer that stores the playback images they need for slow mo. Anyone here know more than I do about it? Those cameras and lenses they use are just insane. Can you imagine what it takes to zoom all the way across the outfield all the way to home plate, with the runner on second, the pitcher AND the batter all in focus? Now THATS some huge depth of field. Plus, they're rock steady. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

August 31st, 2002, 12:43 PM	#6
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	Charles: Quickdraw! Let me guess, it's your day off and you're just relaxing in front of the computer. heh. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

August 31st, 2002, 12:30 PM	#3
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	My guess without seeing the footage is that they were probably shooting with a variable framerate camera (I think panasonic makes one in the $60,000 range),a 60fps 480p camera, or perhaps on a high speed film camera to get the effect. There is only so much a software interpolation scheme can achieve with 60i footage...50% framerate--great...25%--marginal...10%--- blurry slide show. Barry

August 31st, 2002, 06:10 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Yeah, long weekend off. Knocking around the DVinfo site is an excellent way to procrastinate getting work done around the house etc... __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 1st, 2002, 04:11 AM	#8
Dan Uneken Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Andalucia, Spain Posts: 301	Thanks lads. I'll stick with interpolation. __________________ Film & TV locations & production Spain http://www.fotofilmvideo.com/

September 2nd, 2002, 03:00 AM	#9
Simon Plissi Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 105	A recent edit involved slowing down DV footage shot inside a moving car. At first I was apprehensive as to how successful slowing this down would look so I first tried 50%. Wow, I was really pleased with the look so went back and re-did all the slow-mo down to 25% without any stuttering. Whilst this probably doesn't help you as you say you use Premier I did all this in FCP3. The reason I was apprehensive at first was that I too remember how Premier's slow-mo looks. FCP3's slow-mo with frame blending looks great. I've heard how those third party apps/plugins produce a much better effect yet I was still really pleased with quality of FCP. If you can do your slow-mo in FCP then I do recommend you at least give it a go.