Sony VX-2100 vs Canon XM2 at DVinfo.net

Darko Tomic · October 27th, 2004, 02:16 AM

Hi to all,

I just want to ask camera gurus here, what are the differences between the two 3 ccd models ... pros & cons.
The price is about the same, 1/3" ccd (sony) vs 1/4"ccd (canon).
I think sony is better for low light, and canon has 20x optical zoom ... any other thaughts ?

Thanx
Best regards
Darko

Darko Flajpan · October 27th, 2004, 03:10 AM

Question is asked a lot of times here, but my modest oppinion is that you try both of them and decide for yourself. There is lots of folks around working with both cams and claiming XM is better than VX and vice versa. Question is for what you will use camera. I was also in doubt which camera to choose, since I am producing some low budget documentaries and recently few commercials. For my job I found XM2 very good, and i'm very happy with picture quality and controllability. Btw, Maybe you've seen commercial for Ozujsko beer, which is made with XM2. Lots of folks were ready to bet that all was made with bigger equipment.
I haven't go with VX, cause i liked Canon's picture more, and also ability to shoot in frame mode. On the other side VX is far better in low light than XM2, but since i am planing my light setup that is no big issue for me. I also like nice audio controls on XM as well as full manual mode and ability to have VCR stop function.
If you have some questions, feel free to contact me.

Darko Tomic · October 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM

Thanx a lot Darko,

well, the problem is I can not find sony vx2100 to try ...
I think that I need cam with better low light performance, but also the XM's frame mode is nice option to have.
I will use the camera mostly for producing commercials.
Well I have not seen your Ozujsko beer commercial, tell me what tv's in the region to look at for ?

Best regards

Cosmin Rotaru · October 27th, 2004, 06:56 AM

You "will use the camera mostly for producing commercials".
This means in controled light situation. But you need a "cam with better low light performance"

?!

Darko Tomic · October 27th, 2004, 07:03 AM

Cosmin, depends on the budget, sometimes there'll be no light setup for some interior shooting (interviews, fairs, stores etc).

Mirko Sohr · October 27th, 2004, 09:47 AM

vx2100 / pd170 over all

i was using the xm2 before, i got really terrible focus-issues with it in really bright sunlight - how comes ? seems its same like the XL1 / XL1s - lot of people complain about it

my suggestion: vx2100 / pd170 but i am thinking now to change to dvx100a , i like the picture more than the pd170 picture

the frame-mode isnt really a good thing, nothing nearly close to the picture u can see in a cinema, it looks terrible, not really usefull - if u really need a frame-mode think about a dvx

there is a shop here in kaohsiung they have a lot of pro-cams, i know the guy quite well so i got the chance to compare dvx <> pd170 ... quite nice

IMHO canon should make lenses and photo cameras, not video cameras... but everybody think different...

the xm2 got a lot of manual controls thats right, but about the focus-issue... i can't live with it
in some cases i just put the xm2 in front of a simple wall and u still can see the focus-problem kind of pumping

the TV-System here is NTSC the xm2 was PAL, that was one of the reason why i send it back to germany to my friend for saling - the focus-problem was another reason

just my experience about it, i was quite disapointed - spend so much money...

Robin Davies-Rollinson · October 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM

Mirko,
If you were having focus issues with the XM2 (you say it was pumping in front of a simple wall) then it sounds like you were in auto focus. Manual focus woukd never give you that problem...

Robin

Darko Flajpan · October 27th, 2004, 03:22 PM

Concerning Ozujsko commercial it was made for Euro 2004 and was agressivly broadcasted during Euro on all Croatian TV networks.
I also sometimes work with PD150 and just recently 170. They are very good cams, but I still feel much comfortable with my XM2. Also when I was buying camera XM was much cheaper, so I had some money for extra battery, XLR adapter and decent shotgun mike. For low light run-gun situations I have PAG minilight which is great. Focus problem? Never had one. It seems like AF/MF confussion.
Yeah, and DVX 100 is really great cam, but heavily priced in my country.

Shawn Mielke · October 27th, 2004, 06:43 PM

Tough call.
Is the Panasonic AG DVC30 available to you? That's the one I would go with over the XM2, in the name of frame mode and long optical zoom, but also in the name of good audio features (XLR), should you need decent quality camcorder audio.
The Sony PDX10 is another one to consider, for the price. Great images in good light.

If light sensitivity is your main deciding factor, however, go straight towards the VX2100.

Mirko Sohr · October 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson : Mirko,
If you were having focus issues with the XM2 (you say it was pumping in front of a simple wall) then it sounds like you were in auto focus. Manual focus woukd never give you that problem...

Robin -->>>

thats right, but... what is a camera without auto-focus ? in some cases u really need it - if wanted i can have a look for some example, i still keep some xm2 footage

and Darko Flajpan:
if you going to do business with your camera, means you making money with it... IMO you dont have to care how much money for the camera, care more about the quality and how good you can use the cam, like manual controls... the simple thing, does the xm2 have a zoom-ring? no, but i love the ring on the 170, i was missing it since i was using old HI8 cams before (Sony V5000 / V6000) but i love the ring on the dvx much more, its directly connected to the lenses. if u dont have the focus-problem - good luck - maybe i just got a bad cam ?

in my case just a hobby-thing, i am not making money with it, but i care bout such things like auto-focus and manual-controls

just my 2cents...

Shawn Mielke · October 27th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Having independent rings for zoom as well as focus is a godsend in handheld situations!

Mirko Sohr · October 27th, 2004, 11:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : Having independent rings for zoom as well as focus is a godsend in handheld situations! -->>>

you are able to use it ? :D - i mean, in handheld situations... use focus and zoom at almost same time ? it need some training... but its a nice feature

but difficult to handle... maybe just because of my clumsy fingers :D

Terry Thompson · October 28th, 2004, 12:23 AM

I have had many cameras and the last one was ugly under low light. You could see everything but the noise was bad. I had a friend bring over his VX2100 to try out on my stabilization system (http://www.enoch.com/terry/preview_004.htm) and when I saw his picture under low light I couldn't believe how good it looked. Even my current TRV-900 has real good low light qualities but not as good as the 2100 so if it's a good picture under low light you need... the VX2100 is the right choice. The picture looks great under controlled light as well.

Since I many times shoot under less than ideal lighting conditions i.e. wedding receptions and breaking news footage, the low light qualities come in real handy. I'm presently looking to buy a VX2100 NTSC to add to my collection.

Hope you find this helpful.

Terry

Shawn Mielke · October 28th, 2004, 12:46 AM

"you are able to use it ? :D - i mean, in handheld situations... use focus and zoom at almost same time ? it need some training... but its a nice feature"

Well, no, not AT THE SAME TIME! :-] But it's very convenient and fast to work with a couple of rings, one right in front of the other, rather than a zoom rocker on the back of the cam and a focus ring on the front. This way I need never actually take my hand off of the camera. At least, this works for how I hold the camera...

October 27th, 2004, 02:16 AM	#1
Darko Tomic Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 38	Sony VX-2100 vs Canon XM2 Hi to all, I just want to ask camera gurus here, what are the differences between the two 3 ccd models ... pros & cons. The price is about the same, 1/3" ccd (sony) vs 1/4"ccd (canon). I think sony is better for low light, and canon has 20x optical zoom ... any other thaughts ? Thanx Best regards Darko

October 27th, 2004, 03:10 AM	#2
Darko Flajpan Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bjelovar, Croatia Posts: 153	Question is asked a lot of times here, but my modest oppinion is that you try both of them and decide for yourself. There is lots of folks around working with both cams and claiming XM is better than VX and vice versa. Question is for what you will use camera. I was also in doubt which camera to choose, since I am producing some low budget documentaries and recently few commercials. For my job I found XM2 very good, and i'm very happy with picture quality and controllability. Btw, Maybe you've seen commercial for Ozujsko beer, which is made with XM2. Lots of folks were ready to bet that all was made with bigger equipment. I haven't go with VX, cause i liked Canon's picture more, and also ability to shoot in frame mode. On the other side VX is far better in low light than XM2, but since i am planing my light setup that is no big issue for me. I also like nice audio controls on XM as well as full manual mode and ability to have VCR stop function. If you have some questions, feel free to contact me. __________________ XM2 Sony DXC637P BetaSP

October 27th, 2004, 06:56 AM	#4
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	You "will use the camera mostly for producing commercials". This means in controled light situation. But you need a "cam with better low light performance" ?! __________________ Cosmin Rotaru

October 27th, 2004, 09:47 AM	#6
Mirko Sohr New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kaohsiung / Taiwan / R.O.C. Posts: 15	vx2100 / pd170 over all i was using the xm2 before, i got really terrible focus-issues with it in really bright sunlight - how comes ? seems its same like the XL1 / XL1s - lot of people complain about it my suggestion: vx2100 / pd170 but i am thinking now to change to dvx100a , i like the picture more than the pd170 picture the frame-mode isnt really a good thing, nothing nearly close to the picture u can see in a cinema, it looks terrible, not really usefull - if u really need a frame-mode think about a dvx there is a shop here in kaohsiung they have a lot of pro-cams, i know the guy quite well so i got the chance to compare dvx <> pd170 ... quite nice IMHO canon should make lenses and photo cameras, not video cameras... but everybody think different... the xm2 got a lot of manual controls thats right, but about the focus-issue... i can't live with it in some cases i just put the xm2 in front of a simple wall and u still can see the focus-problem kind of pumping the TV-System here is NTSC the xm2 was PAL, that was one of the reason why i send it back to germany to my friend for saling - the focus-problem was another reason just my experience about it, i was quite disapointed - spend so much money... __________________ ---------- i am german, living in Kaohsiung / Taiwan R.O.C. sorry my english isnt the best, if u find some blemish, take it and sale it on ebay or the store u prefer :)

October 27th, 2004, 03:22 PM	#8
Darko Flajpan Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bjelovar, Croatia Posts: 153	Concerning Ozujsko commercial it was made for Euro 2004 and was agressivly broadcasted during Euro on all Croatian TV networks. I also sometimes work with PD150 and just recently 170. They are very good cams, but I still feel much comfortable with my XM2. Also when I was buying camera XM was much cheaper, so I had some money for extra battery, XLR adapter and decent shotgun mike. For low light run-gun situations I have PAG minilight which is great. Focus problem? Never had one. It seems like AF/MF confussion. Yeah, and DVX 100 is really great cam, but heavily priced in my country. __________________ XM2 Sony DXC637P BetaSP

October 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM	#3
Darko Tomic Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 38	Thanx a lot Darko, well, the problem is I can not find sony vx2100 to try ... I think that I need cam with better low light performance, but also the XM's frame mode is nice option to have. I will use the camera mostly for producing commercials. Well I have not seen your Ozujsko beer commercial, tell me what tv's in the region to look at for ? Best regards

October 27th, 2004, 07:03 AM	#5
Darko Tomic Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 38	Cosmin, depends on the budget, sometimes there'll be no light setup for some interior shooting (interviews, fairs, stores etc).

October 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM	#7
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Mirko, If you were having focus issues with the XM2 (you say it was pumping in front of a simple wall) then it sounds like you were in auto focus. Manual focus woukd never give you that problem... Robin

October 27th, 2004, 06:43 PM	#9
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Tough call. Is the Panasonic AG DVC30 available to you? That's the one I would go with over the XM2, in the name of frame mode and long optical zoom, but also in the name of good audio features (XLR), should you need decent quality camcorder audio. The Sony PDX10 is another one to consider, for the price. Great images in good light. If light sensitivity is your main deciding factor, however, go straight towards the VX2100. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#10
Mirko Sohr New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kaohsiung / Taiwan / R.O.C. Posts: 15	<<<-- Originally posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson : Mirko, If you were having focus issues with the XM2 (you say it was pumping in front of a simple wall) then it sounds like you were in auto focus. Manual focus woukd never give you that problem... Robin -->>> thats right, but... what is a camera without auto-focus ? in some cases u really need it - if wanted i can have a look for some example, i still keep some xm2 footage and Darko Flajpan: if you going to do business with your camera, means you making money with it... IMO you dont have to care how much money for the camera, care more about the quality and how good you can use the cam, like manual controls... the simple thing, does the xm2 have a zoom-ring? no, but i love the ring on the 170, i was missing it since i was using old HI8 cams before (Sony V5000 / V6000) but i love the ring on the dvx much more, its directly connected to the lenses. if u dont have the focus-problem - good luck - maybe i just got a bad cam ? in my case just a hobby-thing, i am not making money with it, but i care bout such things like auto-focus and manual-controls just my 2cents... __________________ ---------- i am german, living in Kaohsiung / Taiwan R.O.C. sorry my english isnt the best, if u find some blemish, take it and sale it on ebay or the store u prefer :)

October 27th, 2004, 07:48 PM	#11
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Having independent rings for zoom as well as focus is a godsend in handheld situations! __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 27th, 2004, 11:49 PM	#12
Mirko Sohr New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kaohsiung / Taiwan / R.O.C. Posts: 15	<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : Having independent rings for zoom as well as focus is a godsend in handheld situations! -->>> you are able to use it ? :D - i mean, in handheld situations... use focus and zoom at almost same time ? it need some training... but its a nice feature but difficult to handle... maybe just because of my clumsy fingers :D __________________ ---------- i am german, living in Kaohsiung / Taiwan R.O.C. sorry my english isnt the best, if u find some blemish, take it and sale it on ebay or the store u prefer :)

October 28th, 2004, 12:23 AM	#13
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	VX2100 I have had many cameras and the last one was ugly under low light. You could see everything but the noise was bad. I had a friend bring over his VX2100 to try out on my stabilization system (http://www.enoch.com/terry/preview_004.htm) and when I saw his picture under low light I couldn't believe how good it looked. Even my current TRV-900 has real good low light qualities but not as good as the 2100 so if it's a good picture under low light you need... the VX2100 is the right choice. The picture looks great under controlled light as well. Since I many times shoot under less than ideal lighting conditions i.e. wedding receptions and breaking news footage, the low light qualities come in real handy. I'm presently looking to buy a VX2100 NTSC to add to my collection. Hope you find this helpful. Terry __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

October 28th, 2004, 12:46 AM	#14
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	"you are able to use it ? :D - i mean, in handheld situations... use focus and zoom at almost same time ? it need some training... but its a nice feature" Well, no, not AT THE SAME TIME! :-] But it's very convenient and fast to work with a couple of rings, one right in front of the other, rather than a zoom rocker on the back of the cam and a focus ring on the front. This way I need never actually take my hand off of the camera. At least, this works for how I hold the camera... __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room