DV playback looks bad? Go High Quality!

Kaku Ito · September 5th, 2004, 06:25 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Each DV codec is a little bit different, probably both in quality and
efficiency. On modern computers this shouldn't make too much
of a difference. And since native .DV on a Mac plays with QuickTime
as well I can't imagine a different codec is being used when the
DV stream is encapsulated inside a .MOV file. -->>>

One difference that I should mention is that Avid uses their own codec.

Rob Lohman · September 6th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Yes and so does Sony Vegas (or at least you can choose) and
I believe even Premiere Pro is using another one. That doesn't
matter much to this story however. Playback will usually be with
the system installed codec (depends on how the footage is being
exported by the NLE). This thread is in regards to playback on
a computer outside of the NLE.

David Slingerland · November 26th, 2004, 08:29 AM

Rob,

I want to ask you something different. My cousin burned a few cd's with film on it. It has dvix codec but quiktime/ realplayer and windows mediaplayer on my mac wont play it... The codec is not avaible is what I get when i play it with quicktime. I just hear the film but I cannot see it... the film name ends with avi. (it plays fine on his pc and he has a pentium III 450,

thanks

Charles Papert · November 26th, 2004, 12:55 PM

Thanks Rob and Boyd for their contributions with this issue that has annoyed me whenever I try to show someone video on my Powerbook. Question: it seems to improve the look of all 24fps with 3:2 pulldown footage if I enable the "deinterlace" check box as well--is there any negative to doing so? And does this affect things if this clip is imported into FCP, or are these settings just for the QT viewer?

Barry Goyette · November 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM

David...

Go to divx.com and download the divx player...your clips should play fine on it.

Charles..the deinterlace feature in the quicktime player is a "preview only" adjustment (like the high quality, and size adjustments)...it won't actually do anything to the data...just affects the display in QT player. No downside that I know of.

Barry

A. J. deLange · November 27th, 2004, 07:56 AM

An aspect of this that is often overlooked is the video card in the displaying computer. DV video is 720 x 480. Unless you display an image with that number of pixels on the display (and not anamorpic video) resampling has to be done. The simplest form of this is just copying pixels and that results in clearly visible jaggies. More elegant resampling/interpolation schemes (bilinear, bicubic) make for a much more pleasing display. What seems to distinguish the high end cards is their ability to do higher order interpolation on the fly. Until I swapped out the video card on my Mac (dual G5, Studio display) I was quite disappointed in the quality of the picture when I tried to play back full screen. With the higher end card it's pretty impressive.

Rob Lohman · November 28th, 2004, 06:50 AM

AJ: never had that problem on the PC, interesting!

Charles: as Barry indicated, these settings are playback only
UNLESS you save it with the movie (can be done with the player,
it should prompt for this when you changed something and then
close the player).

I believe both flags can be set when you export a movie (from FCP?)
as well, because I've received .MOV files that already had the
High-Quality flag already enabled.

David: DIVX with avi needs a codec as Barry explained. However,
you could also export to QuickTime (.MOV) with the MPEG4 codec
(same as DIVX) and it will play default on the Mac with a modern
version of QuickTime on it!

Barry Goyette · November 28th, 2004, 10:29 AM

Rob...I'm pretty sure that when you save these settings in QT...its still just a playback or "preview" flag...there is no change to the underlying footage...yes?

barry

Rob Lohman · November 29th, 2004, 03:03 AM

To the best of my knowledge that is 100% correct Barry! It's just
a flag (you can disable it again as well).

Bob McRee · February 3rd, 2005, 10:28 AM

guys i hate to be a real dummy--but exactly what are artifacts---and what are those that are very undesirable--those to look for on the small monitor that will haunt you on larger screens?? bob mcree

A. J. deLange · February 3rd, 2005, 03:07 PM

Generically speaking an artifact is something that is added to an image as a consequence of processing it. Moire patterns from sampling and the blocking of the picture into "tiles" from DCT-based compression algorithms are typical examples. At the beginning of this thread reference was made to interlacing artifacts which aren't really artifacts but are just the consequence of the fact that computer monitors display both fields of a frame at the same time rather than 1/29.97th of a second apart as is done on a TV (NTSC). I too have noticed that these "artifacts" disappear when the high quality flag is not selected and the video is 60i from which I conclude that the difference between hi and lo quality is that only half the lines are displayed in the latter.

Bob McRee · February 3rd, 2005, 05:33 PM

THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE TO A REAL DUMMY....

September 6th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#17
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Yes and so does Sony Vegas (or at least you can choose) and I believe even Premiere Pro is using another one. That doesn't matter much to this story however. Playback will usually be with the system installed codec (depends on how the footage is being exported by the NLE). This thread is in regards to playback on a computer outside of the NLE. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 26th, 2004, 08:29 AM	#18
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	Rob, I want to ask you something different. My cousin burned a few cd's with film on it. It has dvix codec but quiktime/ realplayer and windows mediaplayer on my mac wont play it... The codec is not avaible is what I get when i play it with quicktime. I just hear the film but I cannot see it... the film name ends with avi. (it plays fine on his pc and he has a pentium III 450, thanks __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

November 26th, 2004, 12:55 PM	#19
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Thanks Rob and Boyd for their contributions with this issue that has annoyed me whenever I try to show someone video on my Powerbook. Question: it seems to improve the look of all 24fps with 3:2 pulldown footage if I enable the "deinterlace" check box as well--is there any negative to doing so? And does this affect things if this clip is imported into FCP, or are these settings just for the QT viewer? __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

November 28th, 2004, 06:50 AM	#22
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	AJ: never had that problem on the PC, interesting! Charles: as Barry indicated, these settings are playback only UNLESS you save it with the movie (can be done with the player, it should prompt for this when you changed something and then close the player). I believe both flags can be set when you export a movie (from FCP?) as well, because I've received .MOV files that already had the High-Quality flag already enabled. David: DIVX with avi needs a codec as Barry explained. However, you could also export to QuickTime (.MOV) with the MPEG4 codec (same as DIVX) and it will play default on the Mac with a modern version of QuickTime on it! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 29th, 2004, 03:03 AM	#24
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	To the best of my knowledge that is 100% correct Barry! It's just a flag (you can disable it again as well). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 5th, 2004, 06:25 PM	#16
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Each DV codec is a little bit different, probably both in quality and efficiency. On modern computers this shouldn't make too much of a difference. And since native .DV on a Mac plays with QuickTime as well I can't imagine a different codec is being used when the DV stream is encapsulated inside a .MOV file. -->>> One difference that I should mention is that Avid uses their own codec.

November 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM	#20
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	David... Go to divx.com and download the divx player...your clips should play fine on it. Charles..the deinterlace feature in the quicktime player is a "preview only" adjustment (like the high quality, and size adjustments)...it won't actually do anything to the data...just affects the display in QT player. No downside that I know of. Barry

November 27th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#21
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	An aspect of this that is often overlooked is the video card in the displaying computer. DV video is 720 x 480. Unless you display an image with that number of pixels on the display (and not anamorpic video) resampling has to be done. The simplest form of this is just copying pixels and that results in clearly visible jaggies. More elegant resampling/interpolation schemes (bilinear, bicubic) make for a much more pleasing display. What seems to distinguish the high end cards is their ability to do higher order interpolation on the fly. Until I swapped out the video card on my Mac (dual G5, Studio display) I was quite disappointed in the quality of the picture when I tried to play back full screen. With the higher end card it's pretty impressive.

November 28th, 2004, 10:29 AM	#23
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Rob...I'm pretty sure that when you save these settings in QT...its still just a playback or "preview" flag...there is no change to the underlying footage...yes? barry

February 3rd, 2005, 10:28 AM	#25
Bob McRee New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: jackson ms. Posts: 7	artifacts guys i hate to be a real dummy--but exactly what are artifacts---and what are those that are very undesirable--those to look for on the small monitor that will haunt you on larger screens?? bob mcree

February 3rd, 2005, 03:07 PM	#26
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	Generically speaking an artifact is something that is added to an image as a consequence of processing it. Moire patterns from sampling and the blocking of the picture into "tiles" from DCT-based compression algorithms are typical examples. At the beginning of this thread reference was made to interlacing artifacts which aren't really artifacts but are just the consequence of the fact that computer monitors display both fields of a frame at the same time rather than 1/29.97th of a second apart as is done on a TV (NTSC). I too have noticed that these "artifacts" disappear when the high quality flag is not selected and the video is 60i from which I conclude that the difference between hi and lo quality is that only half the lines are displayed in the latter.

February 3rd, 2005, 05:33 PM	#27
Bob McRee New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: jackson ms. Posts: 7	A J. THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE TO A REAL DUMMY....