The gigantic "which camera should I buy" thread!

Marco van Belle · January 17th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Thanks for your reply....any reason you'd not go for the Z1? I only ask cos its the only one i've got experience with (not HD mind).

Andrew Khalil · January 17th, 2006, 11:42 AM

The Z1 is great as well, I only suggested the JVC because I personally love the lens it comes with since it's a fully manual lens, as well as a few other little things the JVC has.
The Z1 will also give great results, and if you've already got experience with one camera, you'll do a better job since there won't be another learning curve.

Don Donatello · January 17th, 2006, 10:56 PM

how long is your short project ?
depending on length ? you might consider FILM.. = FILM look!!
it all comes down to the type of project ... if it's MOS ( no sync sound) you might think about it ..

Marco van Belle · January 18th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Thanks for the advice Don,

You're right of course - if i can afford to shoot anything on film its this 2 minute short (shortette even at that length?)

However, we (the team i've assembled) are making this as a trial to see how we work together and what we can produce with what we have available. If the results are good, we've got plans to move onto an already scripted more ambitious project.

Also, we all have video experience from camera through to edit, so i figure we should stay in video with future projects in mind, rather than try to teach ourselves film production just for this one off project.

Steve Barcik · January 22nd, 2006, 03:00 PM

What is the best below $600 dv camera out there?

I have some friends gettting married and they want a camera to take on the honeymoon.

Steve Nunez · January 22nd, 2006, 03:34 PM

Check the Canon Optura line- they're great!

Dionyssios Chalkias · January 23rd, 2006, 07:17 AM

The pv-gs65 or pv-gs150 Panasonic 3ccd camcorders.

Steve Barcik · January 23rd, 2006, 07:35 AM

Thank you both appreciate the info.

Allen Zagel · January 26th, 2006, 07:34 PM

Hi
Well, I'm thinking about a new camcorder. Especially since my Sony VX2000 is about 4 years old now. But, which one? Gee so many to choose from!

Was thinking about a VX2100 but been told to stay away from that as it's not that much of an improvement over the 2000.

Looked at the Panasonic Dvx100B but found out maybe there seems to be a noise problem, plus takes a lot of time to set up. My VX2000 is silient and I've never picked up camera "noise" from the on-board mic. Yea, sometimes I have to use it, basically for ambient sounds. And the VX2000 and 2100 doesn't have XLR. I got a Sign Video XLR pro though.

So how about the PD170? Hax 1 lux, xlr and shoots DVcam and MiniDV. So is DVcam any better in quality than MiniDV?

I'd like some opinions from other members please. Open to suggestions. Don't think the HD/HDV is my ticket right now though and I'm not sure if those HD's shoot SD anyway. Most of our work is MPEG-1's on multimedia CD's and now some of our clients are getting DVD players in their corporate computers.

Thanks
Allen

Chris Barcellos · January 26th, 2006, 07:44 PM

Allen:

I have the VX2000-- and despite its "datedness" I would put it up against most of the DV cameras out there. But that argument can be had on post all over this forum.

If you are moving up, and you liked the "no baloney" Sony formats, you should consider the FX1 as your next camera. It does shoot DV, in 16x9. But even better, you can shoot in HDV, and covert from the camera to DV, or capture in HDV, and then convert in post to DV. I've been messing with the latter, and I am finding the DV handled that way is much nicer than the DV of the same scene coming off the VX2000, shot under the same conditions.

You will find the FX1 is not as tolerant of low light, and that is the primary benefit of the VX and PD series of camera. Oh, well, at some point in our development, we have to learn about lighting, and gain, and all that nasty stuff....

Duane Smith · January 26th, 2006, 07:52 PM

I shoot DV CAM with a Sony PD-series camera (a PDX10, to be specific), but I don't do it because of 'higher quality'....I do it because I've found I get less 'dropouts' with it than I do in standard DV mode. I still get dropouts mind you, but just not as many as I get with straight DV. Admitedly, I'm absurdly harsh on my camera. ;-)

IMO, I can't see any quality difference between DV CAM and standard DV mode, and everything I've read indicates that the IMAGE data is the same between the two formats...it's just that DV CAM is more 'robust' in how it records to tape (150% speed difference in fact, so a 60 min DV tape only records 40 min in DV CAM mode), and that the AUDIO data is 'locked' rather than 'unlocked'. But in practice, I never noticed any sound-sync problems in standard DV mode.

YMMV, of course.

Allen Zagel · January 27th, 2006, 04:26 AM

Hi and Thanks.

Chris, I agree with you about the VX2000. That's why I'm having a heck of a time trying to decide. Problem is 16/9 is not good for my technical work. Okay for my "tourist DVD's though. Also moving 'up' to HD I think requires quite an expense in upgrading software and possibly hardware. And I'm staying with Vegas 5.0d. V-6 seems to be having too many problems for me.

Duane, Thanks. I thought the DVcam tape was bigger! ;-). I don't get hardly any dropouts and never had a sync problem with the audio on the VX2000.

What a delimma! Anyway my main customer said they'd either contribute or foot the bill for a new camera, so I'm looking. I'd be adding to the VX2000 not replacing it.

Allen

Marcus Marchesseault · January 27th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Allen,

It sounds like you are the perfect customer for the PD170, but that means XLR mics instead of your current setup. If you already have a good wireless and shotgun, you may not want to switch. Since 16:9 is not appropriate for your product, you would need to move up to a camera that has 1/2 or 2/3" CCDs to get an improved image. Of course, that would mean a larger camera that would be less portable. I hate to say it, but unless you need 16:9 or HD, there is little reason to upgrade from the VX2000.

Marcus

Chris Barcellos · January 27th, 2006, 09:41 AM

Just so you know, you can shoot in 4:3 DV also, with the FX1.

Allen Zagel · January 27th, 2006, 06:47 PM

Hi and thanks again.
Well, my VX2000 is about 4 years old now and I've convinced my company to purchase another camera for me.

I do some subway and low light shooting so need the low light availibity. With the technical shooting I do I have to set-it-and-forget-it so we have to carefully guage the weather and time of day. It has to be done in one take and one minute we're out in the open and the next minute we're going through a tunnel of trees or buildings.

Yes, I do have the Sign Video XLR pro as well as a Marantz PDM660 digital recorder that has phantom power and XLR. My mic's are AT2020 for studio voice overs, 2- Shore SM11's, an AT897 and Azden wireless AZD10HT and AZD100LT UHF systems.

Also I'd be able to do multi-camera shots. I've got a training video shoot coming up and It would be nice to have 2 cameras. Now I have to stop the scene and change camera location to effect the shot the way I want it. With 2 cameras I could do it easy in post. You certainly don't want to have a person talking (talking face) with a continuous front-on shot. Need to alternate front and side views.

Guess I'm probably leaning toward the PD170 then but haven't ruled out HD if I can get good low light and it still would shoot SD 4:3. Then I could do my tourist stuff in 16:9

Check out my web site in the signature and you can see a 1 minute preview of my 2 "tour" DVD's. Those probably would have been nice in 16:9 wide screen.

Sorry for the typo in my signature. Should be 265mph. It's been fixed.

Allen

January 17th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#1006
Marco van Belle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 58	why not Z1? Thanks for your reply....any reason you'd not go for the Z1? I only ask cos its the only one i've got experience with (not HD mind).

January 18th, 2006, 05:29 AM	#1009
Marco van Belle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 58	good point Don Thanks for the advice Don, You're right of course - if i can afford to shoot anything on film its this 2 minute short (shortette even at that length?) However, we (the team i've assembled) are making this as a trial to see how we work together and what we can produce with what we have available. If the results are good, we've got plans to move onto an already scripted more ambitious project. Also, we all have video experience from camera through to edit, so i figure we should stay in video with future projects in mind, rather than try to teach ourselves film production just for this one off project.

January 22nd, 2006, 03:00 PM	#1010
Steve Barcik New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 12	Best below $600 Dvc camera What is the best below $600 dv camera out there? I have some friends gettting married and they want a camera to take on the honeymoon. __________________ Steve B Set It off!

January 22nd, 2006, 03:34 PM	#1011
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Check the Canon Optura line- they're great! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

January 23rd, 2006, 07:35 AM	#1013
Steve Barcik New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 12	Thank you both appreciate the info. __________________ Steve B Set It off!

January 17th, 2006, 11:42 AM	#1007
Andrew Khalil Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 424	The Z1 is great as well, I only suggested the JVC because I personally love the lens it comes with since it's a fully manual lens, as well as a few other little things the JVC has. The Z1 will also give great results, and if you've already got experience with one camera, you'll do a better job since there won't be another learning curve.

January 17th, 2006, 10:56 PM	#1008
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	how long is your short project ? depending on length ? you might consider FILM.. = FILM look!! it all comes down to the type of project ... if it's MOS ( no sync sound) you might think about it ..

January 23rd, 2006, 07:17 AM	#1012
Dionyssios Chalkias Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 64	The pv-gs65 or pv-gs150 Panasonic 3ccd camcorders.

January 26th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#1014
Allen Zagel New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 17	Need a new camera, but which one? Hi Well, I'm thinking about a new camcorder. Especially since my Sony VX2000 is about 4 years old now. But, which one? Gee so many to choose from! Was thinking about a VX2100 but been told to stay away from that as it's not that much of an improvement over the 2000. Looked at the Panasonic Dvx100B but found out maybe there seems to be a noise problem, plus takes a lot of time to set up. My VX2000 is silient and I've never picked up camera "noise" from the on-board mic. Yea, sometimes I have to use it, basically for ambient sounds. And the VX2000 and 2100 doesn't have XLR. I got a Sign Video XLR pro though. So how about the PD170? Hax 1 lux, xlr and shoots DVcam and MiniDV. So is DVcam any better in quality than MiniDV? I'd like some opinions from other members please. Open to suggestions. Don't think the HD/HDV is my ticket right now though and I'm not sure if those HD's shoot SD anyway. Most of our work is MPEG-1's on multimedia CD's and now some of our clients are getting DVD players in their corporate computers. Thanks Allen

January 26th, 2006, 07:44 PM	#1015
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	From VX2000 I went to FX1 Allen: I have the VX2000-- and despite its "datedness" I would put it up against most of the DV cameras out there. But that argument can be had on post all over this forum. If you are moving up, and you liked the "no baloney" Sony formats, you should consider the FX1 as your next camera. It does shoot DV, in 16x9. But even better, you can shoot in HDV, and covert from the camera to DV, or capture in HDV, and then convert in post to DV. I've been messing with the latter, and I am finding the DV handled that way is much nicer than the DV of the same scene coming off the VX2000, shot under the same conditions. You will find the FX1 is not as tolerant of low light, and that is the primary benefit of the VX and PD series of camera. Oh, well, at some point in our development, we have to learn about lighting, and gain, and all that nasty stuff.... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 26th, 2006, 07:52 PM	#1016
Duane Smith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 234	I shoot DV CAM with a Sony PD-series camera (a PDX10, to be specific), but I don't do it because of 'higher quality'....I do it because I've found I get less 'dropouts' with it than I do in standard DV mode. I still get dropouts mind you, but just not as many as I get with straight DV. Admitedly, I'm absurdly harsh on my camera. ;-) IMO, I can't see any quality difference between DV CAM and standard DV mode, and everything I've read indicates that the IMAGE data is the same between the two formats...it's just that DV CAM is more 'robust' in how it records to tape (150% speed difference in fact, so a 60 min DV tape only records 40 min in DV CAM mode), and that the AUDIO data is 'locked' rather than 'unlocked'. But in practice, I never noticed any sound-sync problems in standard DV mode. YMMV, of course.

January 27th, 2006, 04:26 AM	#1017
Allen Zagel New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 17	Hi and Thanks. Chris, I agree with you about the VX2000. That's why I'm having a heck of a time trying to decide. Problem is 16/9 is not good for my technical work. Okay for my "tourist DVD's though. Also moving 'up' to HD I think requires quite an expense in upgrading software and possibly hardware. And I'm staying with Vegas 5.0d. V-6 seems to be having too many problems for me. Duane, Thanks. I thought the DVcam tape was bigger! ;-). I don't get hardly any dropouts and never had a sync problem with the audio on the VX2000. What a delimma! Anyway my main customer said they'd either contribute or foot the bill for a new camera, so I'm looking. I'd be adding to the VX2000 not replacing it. Allen __________________ A World's first on DVD. Shanghai's new MagLev train Entire trip from the front end 267mph http://www.asxvideo.com

January 27th, 2006, 05:29 AM	#1018
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Allen, It sounds like you are the perfect customer for the PD170, but that means XLR mics instead of your current setup. If you already have a good wireless and shotgun, you may not want to switch. Since 16:9 is not appropriate for your product, you would need to move up to a camera that has 1/2 or 2/3" CCDs to get an improved image. Of course, that would mean a larger camera that would be less portable. I hate to say it, but unless you need 16:9 or HD, there is little reason to upgrade from the VX2000. Marcus

January 27th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#1019
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Fx1 Just so you know, you can shoot in 4:3 DV also, with the FX1. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 27th, 2006, 06:47 PM	#1020
Allen Zagel New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 17	Hi and thanks again. Well, my VX2000 is about 4 years old now and I've convinced my company to purchase another camera for me. I do some subway and low light shooting so need the low light availibity. With the technical shooting I do I have to set-it-and-forget-it so we have to carefully guage the weather and time of day. It has to be done in one take and one minute we're out in the open and the next minute we're going through a tunnel of trees or buildings. Yes, I do have the Sign Video XLR pro as well as a Marantz PDM660 digital recorder that has phantom power and XLR. My mic's are AT2020 for studio voice overs, 2- Shore SM11's, an AT897 and Azden wireless AZD10HT and AZD100LT UHF systems. Also I'd be able to do multi-camera shots. I've got a training video shoot coming up and It would be nice to have 2 cameras. Now I have to stop the scene and change camera location to effect the shot the way I want it. With 2 cameras I could do it easy in post. You certainly don't want to have a person talking (talking face) with a continuous front-on shot. Need to alternate front and side views. Guess I'm probably leaning toward the PD170 then but haven't ruled out HD if I can get good low light and it still would shoot SD 4:3. Then I could do my tourist stuff in 16:9 Check out my web site in the signature and you can see a 1 minute preview of my 2 "tour" DVD's. Those probably would have been nice in 16:9 wide screen. Sorry for the typo in my signature. Should be 265mph. It's been fixed. Allen __________________ A World's first on DVD. Shanghai's new MagLev train Entire trip from the front end 267mph http://www.asxvideo.com Last edited by Allen Zagel; January 28th, 2006 at 05:12 AM.