The gigantic "which camera should I buy" thread!

Ken Tanaka · January 31st, 2005, 06:55 PM

I'm sure you will be happy with the GS400. But I've two last thoughts for you.

First, if you have the opportunity to do so, I strongly recommend taking at least a couple of these cameras for a test drive, even if it's just handling them in a store.

Second, pixel counts are largely meaningless with regard to the final footage. Remember, the primary viewing venue for all of these cameras is televisions. In that realm resolution is measured in lines of vertical resolution. To that end, the camera's digital signal processing that translates the raw pixels to scan lines is really the key determinant. Manufacturers play with pixel counts mainly for marketing purposes. So don't be too swayed by that stat.

Have fun with your new camera.

Boyd Ostroff · January 31st, 2005, 07:36 PM

If you properly create an anamorphic DVD then it will do exactly what you want. On a 4:3 TV the DVD player itself will provide the letterboxing. However on a 16:9 screen it will play at full resolution and fill the screen. You'll need to study your software manual to see if your DVD authoring application supports anamorphic 16:9.

The user's DVD player must be properly configured via the menus as well. All the players I've seen default to use with 4:3 screens. So if you have a widescreen TV then you need to go to the system menu on your DVD player and choose the correct option for 16:9 so the player knows your screen type.

BTW, unless I'm mistaken the GS-400 and PDX-10 have CCD's with identical specs - 1/4.7" with 1152x864 pixels. But Ken makes an excellent point about trying the cameras and not buying on specs alone. Let us know how it works out for you.

Scott Shama · February 1st, 2005, 12:12 AM

So I went to the local Camera World and tried out the GS400, the GL2, the HC1000, the XL2 (wow, I wish I could..) and the VX2100. The GS400 was nice but was a lot smaller than I thought it would be. It also felt a little akward in my hands to operate compared to some of the other cameras. I think my fingers are too long.

They did not have the DVC30 or the PDX10. I have to admit that I had previosly just discounted the Sony's across the board because I believe Sony as a brand is always overpriced. You always seem to pay more to have those four letters on your gadget and it may not be better than the stuff that says Panasonic or JVC. Anyway, just my personal opinion. That aside I had to take notice that the Sony XV2100 can be found for just over $2K. Even with all that, I feel as though it may be more camera than I can actually take advantage of. I am thinking that I might just spend less on something like the Optura XI and put about $700 into a "Shooting Video" Class at the NW Film Center in Portland. After I get more comfortable and start shooting video worth watching, I will probably have a whole new crop of Video camera's to choose from and the starter camera can become my "second".

If there are any noobs reading this, take the advice of the experienced people on this BB and try out the cameras in a store. It definetly makes a difference how you think about the cameras.

Cheers,
Scott

Ken Tanaka · February 1st, 2005, 12:26 AM

Good for you, Scott! So many people get lathered-up for a particular camera and are then either overwhelmed or disappointed when they actually take ownership of it. You were fortunate at being able to actually lay hands on several models.

Your plan sounds like a thoughtful, mature way to ease into the basics of shooting. I suspect you'll be glad you took such an approach a year or two from now. Learning good photographic principles and practices is vastly more significant to the end product than using the most advanced camera. Top-grade cameras can be rented for specific projects for modest amounts. Top-grade talent and skills are harder to get.

Jim OMalley · February 1st, 2005, 04:06 PM

If it's of any interest -- I had narrowed my choices to the GL2 and the VX2100 before I finally decided to get the GL2. The 20x zoom and the Canon rebate were the main factors in my final decision.

Cole Lanter · February 8th, 2005, 06:01 PM

now, i know this topic has probably been answered by many of you at one time or another, but i dont have time to sift through all the threads to find the answer.
ok, so my question is, which one is better to get, DVX 100a or Canon XL2?!?! if any of you could review each pro and con of each camera, that would be nice.

John Britt · February 8th, 2005, 06:25 PM

Uh, why do I get the feeling that I'm being made fun of...?

Or am I just self-involved and/or paranoid?

EDIT: Hey, what just happend to Rhett's response (the one I'm referring to above in this post)? After I submitted my reply, his had disappeared... Maybe I really am paranoid...

Boyd Ostroff · February 8th, 2005, 06:33 PM

John: don't be paranoid, I removed Rhett's post from public view because it seemed harsh and bordered on flame-bait. Rhett: I would have sent you an e-mail about this but you haven't provided us with an address.

For everyone else: Rhett's suggestion was that Cole should first do his "due diligence," and then ask us specific questions.

Mitchell Stookey · February 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM

This is a very helpful review of both of those cameras you mentioned as well as the Sony FX1. It compares and contrasts them all, using them all in the same situations, so you will be able to choose what camera you will need to best suit what you are doing.
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

Cole Lanter · February 8th, 2005, 06:41 PM

now im paranoid! but, mr. stooky, that review is great thanks a lot!

John Britt · February 8th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Cole, if I may (since this my hobby horse for the day): The problem (if there is one) arises from the fact that you said, "i know this topic has probably been answered by many of you at one time or another, but i dont have time to sift through all the threads to find the answer."

It has nothing to do with who is a professional and who is a hobbyist. It has to do with taking the time to do your own initial research. There is a wealth of archived information here at dvinfo.net, and it is going to waste when people don't take the time to review what has already been discussed. Once you've read through the exisitng information, you can asked a better-formed question, one which we might actually be able to help you with.

EDIT: OK, since you seem to dive headfirst into the review posted above, you obviously have no problem with doing the research. You were just looking for a condensed review...

Cole Lanter · February 8th, 2005, 06:48 PM

im sorry if that sounded rude. the truth is, is that i have looked all over the internet for the past few months and have come up with pretty much nothing. in addition ive gone to many retailers and asked them what they thought, every last one of them said they didnt know. when i said i didnt have time what i really meant was "ive been on a DV internet binge for the past two hours and now im hungry, answer my question now". i was hoping the harshes wouldnt be apperant, but apperantly it was. i really am sorry if i sounded like an ass but i really didnt mean too.

Boyd Ostroff · February 8th, 2005, 06:57 PM

OK guys, I think we finally have all this sorted out. I've trimmed this thread down a little to remove some posts which really have nothing to do with the topic. Please, let's try to be constructive and discuss cameras instead of personalities....

John Britt · February 8th, 2005, 07:43 PM

Well, having read the above review, what do you think now? What sort of projects are you looking to do? The DVX100 is still moving off shelves fairly steadily -- which either says something about the quality of the DVX or the power of inertia...

Jan Crittenden of Panasonic says that currently the DVX comes with "a copy of Magic Bullet for editors, a copy of Barry Green's DVX Book and DVD and now a $300 [rebate]" Bonuses like this may or may not matter to you. What features would you prefer in a camera?

I've been very happy with my DVC80, and had I had the money at the time, I most likely would have gotten the DVX. Were I a more accomplished photographer, I might consider Canon's line, which would provide me with interchangable lenses. But, as some members like to mention, even an accomplished filmmaker like Soderbergh can make the Canon look like a one-chipper. The review Mitchell posted is some good reading, though...

Rhett Allen · February 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Wow, I guess I missed something.

Boyd, I sent you an email.
John, not sure what you're referring to but I wasn't trying to make fun of you or anyone.

Cole, I guess my point was that these forums ARE one of, if not THE best resources for information on the internet. By doing a few searches you can find tons of information and links to even the most obscure information regarding DV and video production available. It is all provided by professionals of different levels of experience, for free, by voluntarily donating their valuable time. I certainly appreciate it, and hope everyone else does as well.

Good luck on your quest.

January 31st, 2005, 06:55 PM	#646
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I'm sure you will be happy with the GS400. But I've two last thoughts for you. First, if you have the opportunity to do so, I strongly recommend taking at least a couple of these cameras for a test drive, even if it's just handling them in a store. Second, pixel counts are largely meaningless with regard to the final footage. Remember, the primary viewing venue for all of these cameras is televisions. In that realm resolution is measured in lines of vertical resolution. To that end, the camera's digital signal processing that translates the raw pixels to scan lines is really the key determinant. Manufacturers play with pixel counts mainly for marketing purposes. So don't be too swayed by that stat. Have fun with your new camera. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 1st, 2005, 12:12 AM	#648
Scott Shama Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 399	Now what...? So I went to the local Camera World and tried out the GS400, the GL2, the HC1000, the XL2 (wow, I wish I could..) and the VX2100. The GS400 was nice but was a lot smaller than I thought it would be. It also felt a little akward in my hands to operate compared to some of the other cameras. I think my fingers are too long. They did not have the DVC30 or the PDX10. I have to admit that I had previosly just discounted the Sony's across the board because I believe Sony as a brand is always overpriced. You always seem to pay more to have those four letters on your gadget and it may not be better than the stuff that says Panasonic or JVC. Anyway, just my personal opinion. That aside I had to take notice that the Sony XV2100 can be found for just over $2K. Even with all that, I feel as though it may be more camera than I can actually take advantage of. I am thinking that I might just spend less on something like the Optura XI and put about $700 into a "Shooting Video" Class at the NW Film Center in Portland. After I get more comfortable and start shooting video worth watching, I will probably have a whole new crop of Video camera's to choose from and the starter camera can become my "second". If there are any noobs reading this, take the advice of the experienced people on this BB and try out the cameras in a store. It definetly makes a difference how you think about the cameras. Cheers, Scott

February 1st, 2005, 12:26 AM	#649
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Good for you, Scott! So many people get lathered-up for a particular camera and are then either overwhelmed or disappointed when they actually take ownership of it. You were fortunate at being able to actually lay hands on several models. Your plan sounds like a thoughtful, mature way to ease into the basics of shooting. I suspect you'll be glad you took such an approach a year or two from now. Learning good photographic principles and practices is vastly more significant to the end product than using the most advanced camera. Top-grade cameras can be rented for specific projects for modest amounts. Top-grade talent and skills are harder to get. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 8th, 2005, 06:01 PM	#651
Cole Lanter New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10	Gee... which camera should i get? now, i know this topic has probably been answered by many of you at one time or another, but i dont have time to sift through all the threads to find the answer. ok, so my question is, which one is better to get, DVX 100a or Canon XL2?!?! if any of you could review each pro and con of each camera, that would be nice.

February 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM	#654
Mitchell Stookey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 196	This is all you need to know... This is a very helpful review of both of those cameras you mentioned as well as the Sony FX1. It compares and contrasts them all, using them all in the same situations, so you will be able to choose what camera you will need to best suit what you are doing. http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

January 31st, 2005, 07:36 PM	#647
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	If you properly create an anamorphic DVD then it will do exactly what you want. On a 4:3 TV the DVD player itself will provide the letterboxing. However on a 16:9 screen it will play at full resolution and fill the screen. You'll need to study your software manual to see if your DVD authoring application supports anamorphic 16:9. The user's DVD player must be properly configured via the menus as well. All the players I've seen default to use with 4:3 screens. So if you have a widescreen TV then you need to go to the system menu on your DVD player and choose the correct option for 16:9 so the player knows your screen type. BTW, unless I'm mistaken the GS-400 and PDX-10 have CCD's with identical specs - 1/4.7" with 1152x864 pixels. But Ken makes an excellent point about trying the cameras and not buying on specs alone. Let us know how it works out for you.

February 1st, 2005, 04:06 PM	#650
Jim OMalley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 81	If it's of any interest -- I had narrowed my choices to the GL2 and the VX2100 before I finally decided to get the GL2. The 20x zoom and the Canon rebate were the main factors in my final decision.

February 8th, 2005, 06:25 PM	#652
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Uh, why do I get the feeling that I'm being made fun of...? Or am I just self-involved and/or paranoid? EDIT: Hey, what just happend to Rhett's response (the one I'm referring to above in this post)? After I submitted my reply, his had disappeared... Maybe I really am paranoid...

February 8th, 2005, 06:33 PM	#653
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	John: don't be paranoid, I removed Rhett's post from public view because it seemed harsh and bordered on flame-bait. Rhett: I would have sent you an e-mail about this but you haven't provided us with an address. For everyone else: Rhett's suggestion was that Cole should first do his "due diligence," and then ask us specific questions.

February 8th, 2005, 06:41 PM	#655
Cole Lanter New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10	now im paranoid! but, mr. stooky, that review is great thanks a lot!

February 8th, 2005, 06:42 PM	#656
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Cole, if I may (since this my hobby horse for the day): The problem (if there is one) arises from the fact that you said, "i know this topic has probably been answered by many of you at one time or another, but i dont have time to sift through all the threads to find the answer." It has nothing to do with who is a professional and who is a hobbyist. It has to do with taking the time to do your own initial research. There is a wealth of archived information here at dvinfo.net, and it is going to waste when people don't take the time to review what has already been discussed. Once you've read through the exisitng information, you can asked a better-formed question, one which we might actually be able to help you with. EDIT: OK, since you seem to dive headfirst into the review posted above, you obviously have no problem with doing the research. You were just looking for a condensed review...

February 8th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#657
Cole Lanter New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10	im sorry if that sounded rude. the truth is, is that i have looked all over the internet for the past few months and have come up with pretty much nothing. in addition ive gone to many retailers and asked them what they thought, every last one of them said they didnt know. when i said i didnt have time what i really meant was "ive been on a DV internet binge for the past two hours and now im hungry, answer my question now". i was hoping the harshes wouldnt be apperant, but apperantly it was. i really am sorry if i sounded like an ass but i really didnt mean too.

February 8th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#658
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	OK guys, I think we finally have all this sorted out. I've trimmed this thread down a little to remove some posts which really have nothing to do with the topic. Please, let's try to be constructive and discuss cameras instead of personalities....

February 8th, 2005, 07:43 PM	#659
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Well, having read the above review, what do you think now? What sort of projects are you looking to do? The DVX100 is still moving off shelves fairly steadily -- which either says something about the quality of the DVX or the power of inertia... Jan Crittenden of Panasonic says that currently the DVX comes with "a copy of Magic Bullet for editors, a copy of Barry Green's DVX Book and DVD and now a $300 [rebate]" Bonuses like this may or may not matter to you. What features would you prefer in a camera? I've been very happy with my DVC80, and had I had the money at the time, I most likely would have gotten the DVX. Were I a more accomplished photographer, I might consider Canon's line, which would provide me with interchangable lenses. But, as some members like to mention, even an accomplished filmmaker like Soderbergh can make the Canon look like a one-chipper. The review Mitchell posted is some good reading, though...

February 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM	#660
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Wow, I guess I missed something. Boyd, I sent you an email. John, not sure what you're referring to but I wasn't trying to make fun of you or anyone. Cole, I guess my point was that these forums ARE one of, if not THE best resources for information on the internet. By doing a few searches you can find tons of information and links to even the most obscure information regarding DV and video production available. It is all provided by professionals of different levels of experience, for free, by voluntarily donating their valuable time. I certainly appreciate it, and hope everyone else does as well. Good luck on your quest.