The gigantic "which camera should I buy" thread!

[Ed Smith]

hi Julian,

The AG- DVC7 is available in the UK. The college I used to goto brought 2 of them. Unfortuantly they brought them just after I left about 2 years ago, but they were said to be happy with them. They look good, and have all the feature you would probably need in your situation. However i can't seem to find any suppliers, nor find it on Panasonics europe broadcast site (http://www.panasonic-broadcast.com/_web/index.cfm) but did find it on there USA site :( I remember seeing an ad in Computer Video magazine, but that was ages ago.

[Tommy Haupfear]

Sorry Julian, I didn't notice that you were hailing from the UK. A quick glance on the Panasonic UK site doesn't reveal an AG-DVC7 variant in either consumer or broadcast. Looks like they carried them at one time.

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

The PAL version of the DVC7 seem to be the MD9000.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...#goto_itemInfo

[Ryan Spicer]

Alright, I'm almost ashamed for my first post here to be so completely newbish, but, here goes:

I am a college sophomore, soon to be junior, studying film theory and hoping to move into film production in some role after graduation. I've been working with video since Jr. High, and led several DV productions in highschool, but I've never owned my own camera. I have access to a Canon XL1 and several GL1s through the university's film and DV clubs, but I'd like to invest in my own camera for use away from campus. Since I'm paying tuition out of my own pocket, my budget is severely limited. I'd love to be able to buy a GL2, or even a used GL1, but the only way I could justify the $2,500 expense would be if I could immediately put the gear to use recovering some of that investment. So, question, part 1: Does anyone have advice with regard to finding work as a freelance videographer in a college town? The DV club only gets a few requests for filming assistance every year, usually about $50 a gig -- nowhere near what it'd take to recover the $2,500+. I already have basic DVD burning equipment, and experience in FCP/Premier/various Pinnacle products, again something I could justify purchasing for myself if I could turn a profit with it..

Considering the likely impracticality of actually making money immediately, then, it seems like maybe I should settle for a lower-end camera for personal use and to "play with," jumping through the necessary hoops to use club equipment once I have a serious project. My main concern there is budget (probably under $1,000) but I'd want decent image quality and, at the very least, a microphone input for expanding to an external mic. Manual adjustments would be great, but I know that's asking a lot from this price range. Does anyone on the boards have experience with a decent lower-end camera that they'd reccomend? I've previously worked with consumer-grade gear (Canon ZR60, and some JVC rig that was perpetually requesting tape-head cleaning and had issues with everything but Sony tapes with the red door) that didn't live up to my expectations in terms of quality. I'm half-convinced its stupid to buy a $700 camera now, and then another $3,000 camera in a couple of years, but I'd really like to be able to experiment with DV now, without the frustration of checking out cameras, dealing with 24-hour loan periods, and so forth.

Thanks for at least taking the time to read this. Cheers!

-Ryan

[Glenn Chan]

If you want to do industrial videos, you'd need:
skill/talent to make good content (i.e. good writing skills)
people skills (dealing with clients)
experience
time (can't conflict with school right?)
gear
car?

As far as gear goes, you'd need:
camera (i.e. Panasonic DVC80)
audio gear - wired/wireless lav + short shortgun or hypercardioid would probably do.
accessories (especially tripod)
lights?
Editing suite- most computers will do, although you need software (i.e. Vegas with academic pricing, ~$200)

business expenses: website?, business cards, transportation, food, ?phone?, furniture/stationary, etc.

Some of this gear you can rent cheaply.

You also need to make enough money to pay off your expenses and your time. If you need to build experience and a client base by giving away free/cheap work that will be harder. If you want to continue doing that kind of stuff once you graduate then your calculations will be different.

Instead of industrial videos you could do other things... like weddings, adult videos (apparently very lucrative... although probably not what you're looking for). etc.

[Love Mov]

I think most people here have watched "fifth element" superbit DVD? (or maybe, even Charlies angels)
OK, the question, is there a cemare can make good looking PQ like this DVD? (under $10k)
The DV at 720x480, exactly the same as a DVD, however, I have never seen a DV tape that it's PQ is better or even close to a good DVD. (and the DVD compression ratio is much higher, at most 10Mb, while DV is 25Mb).
So, I guess only 50k video camera can do this? Any suggestion?

(By the way, on a normal HDTV up to 60", I found even $2000 PDX10 looks very close to DVD, but on a 150-200" HD projector, the different is huge, especially the resolution and color.)

[Luis Caffesse]

You're concentrating on the DVD media for some reason when what you should be looking at is 35mm film.

Those films don't look great because they're on DVD, in fact they look great in spite of being on DVD. As you mentioned, the bitrate on DVDs is much lower than DV.

They look great because they were shot on 35mm film by people who knew what they were doing.

They would look just as good dubbed onto a DV tape as they do encoded and burned onto a DVD.

So, what you probably want is a camera under 10K that can shoot something that looks like 35mm.

-Luis

check out www.kinetta.com

it won't be under 10K, but it's still cool

[Leon Ortiz-Gil]

I would'nt get an expensive camera with the hopes that you will find some work to pay for it. Line up the work first. I bought a FCP system but had two projects lined up so I already knew I had money coming in. I was then able to use those projects for a demo reel and gained other work off that.

As far as a camera goes I am cutting a documentary shot on the Panasonic dvx1000. It looks great. I regret shooting my last short on the xl-1 after seeing the Pani. But I would do a search in here to find out what other people say about each camera. There are pro's and con's on everyone of them.

[Love Mov]

So I interpret your reply as "no such thing exsists", DV is not impossible to rival 35mm DVD transfer, right? (at least not for $10k and lower....I know $50 can do as I have watched it).

[Jeff Donald]

The camera is only part of the equation. Hundreds of hours and thousands (?) are spent on post processing the original footage. DV would benefit from that kind of treatment also.

[Rob Lohman]

Since DVD and DV have the exact same resolution you can
basically do the exact same thing. The issue is usually within
other systems as others mentioned above.

I would get the best camera you can get *AND* supporting
equipment, don't forgot to buy things like:

- camera support: tripod, dolly, steadicam etc.
- lighting support: lights, cases, cables, filters, stands, scrims etc.
- editing computer + software

I disagree that most camera's DV source doesn't come close to
DVD. In my opinion my XL1S certainly does. Does it look the same
(or perhaps feels the same is a better word). No. But that isn't
the camera's fault. It's not a film camera, but you can get a very
good film like look if you invest in story, lighting, acting, camera
moves and post-production.

There is a reason why the credits are so long for most movies...

Also, the XL1S in this example will not look great if you just put
it in automatic mode and point it at something. Switch the camera
to full manual, into frame mode, change the setup (black level),
frame properly and use a good exposure (slightly under exposed)
etc. etc.

[Chris Hurd]

Rob took the words right out of my mouth... take a look at the credits listing at the end of a movie like The Fifth Element. That's why it looks the way it does, despite being on DVD, as Luis correctly points out.

DV and DVD are the same resolution, but you can't really compare the two... DV is an aquisition format and DVD is a distribution format. The DVD medium has nothing to do with how good a movie like The Fifth Element looks. Check out the same title on VHS. It would be like asking, "where is the VHS camcorder that shoots as good as Fifth Element looks on VHS?" I'm sure you get my point.

[Glenn Chan]

Lighting and color grading/correction will make your stuff look a lot better.

Feature films have a lot spent on lighting and are usually color graded on some pretty expensive software. 35mm and highdef also have a lot more latitude than DV cameras. They also have people doing makeup, art direction, and costume design which make make some things look a lot better.

[Bryan McCullough]

Those Sony miniDVD cameras do DVD quality I think.

;)

[Love Mov]

You guys are talking about color, gamma, film look, etc...I agree the post plays an important roll here.
But I a mainly talking baout resolution. I don't think you can improve resolution in post, the information was recorded and that's all you have afterward. So, I see 720x480 resolution, on DVD all the pixels are there, on DV, I just can't believe it's real 720x480. In other word, if a DVD looks like anamorphic DVD, DV looks like letterboxed, which all color reprodution is fine, it's just not that sharp..