The gigantic "which camera should I buy" thread!

Jackie Morton · July 6th, 2009, 09:14 PM

Hey guys, I need to learn cinematography and make short films. I've been using an HV30 with a 30mm adapter and am now looking to upgrade to an XH A1, mainly because it's just within my budget, is also a Canon, and seems to be liked by a lot of people. Is this the cam for me if I'm basically looking to learn the manual controls and practice making films?

Tom Hardwick · July 7th, 2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackie Morton

Is this the cam for me if I'm basically looking to learn the manual controls and practice making films?

The XH-A1 is the biz, and will do all that and more. It also has a specification that belies its price and the camera allows you to play and learn all the disciplines - focal length, focus, aperture, gain, shutter speed, audio levels white balance, ND filtration, dof and countless menu-driven setups.

I'm pretty sure the next Canon can't be far off. It'll most probably be SD card and not tape, but it won't teach you anything more than the XH will.

tom.

Kevin Duffey · July 9th, 2009, 07:13 PM

Hey all,

I am inches away from picking up the Canon HF S100 camera to use it's HDMI output and really good HD quality.. connected to initially a small "semi portable" Shuttle recording box with RAID HDs and the Intensity HDMI card. If I can swing it... I want to get the nanoFlash setup going. so I can have a portable HDMI uncompressed (almost) rig going for an affordable price.

However my fear is the HDMI plug is easily pulled out of the camera... so I am eager to discover a camera with the HD-SDI locking plug as the nanoFlash and the Intensity card both support that as well, but is not hopefully too much more in price and offers as good an HD picture.. if not better than the canon does. I primarily want to use this to shoot stock video and weddings and events, not movies. It would be nice to have a camera with some sort of XLR like audio input and a mount for a boom mic as well for weddings/events. The most important thing is the HD-SDI output with locking plug, good optics and as low a price as possible. I am on a very tight budget (hence building a Shuttle computer with Intensity over buying the nanoFlash.. although it will limit my mobility unless I can find some sort of battery pack that can power the computer).

Thank you.

Kevin Duffey · July 9th, 2009, 07:42 PM

Jay,

I wish I had your budget! For $4K, if you're looking at a video camera.. after tons of reading.. I'd honestly opt for the Canon S100 and the nanoFlash unit. The nanoFlash is about $3K, plus you'll need a couple of 32GB flash cards..if not more. The Canon has an 8.59MP CMOS 1/2.6" censor on it, and using the HDMI port directly into the nanoFlash, you get near uncompressed video and audio. There are a couple posts on the net that show the Canon S10 (the same camera, $200 more but comes with 32GB internal flash ram.. if you're going to get the nanoFlash..no reason to waste $200 on internal flash memory) with the nanoFlash and it is stunning to say the least! If I had about 5K to spend (including extra batteries, case, flash cards) this is the way I would go right now. The image quality is stunning and you can edit the files quite easily in most editors. I say most because in talking with them recently they indicate that on windows, there are some bugs still for premiere pro.. that should be worked out within a month or so. I imagine you can convert the files.. or get CineForm and use their HDLink to convert to CineForm directly and use those, which do work in Premiere.

Two issues have me looking (and I just asked a short while ago on this thread) about perhaps a slightly more professional camera. The lens/optics.. although it is very good on the canon.. being able to have the manual option like on the XH-A1 and such would be nice.. and having an HD-SDI locking connector would be better than the mini-HDMI on the S100/10 so that the cord doesn't get pulled out while you're recording..which could be easy to do.

There is one other issue which I haven't worked out.. power supply for the nanoFlash. On more professional cameras it looks like they could power the nanoFlash. I am not sure otherwise..but I'll cross that bridge when I have that kind of budget. Then again..if I have a 4K or so budget, I am looking at the Red Scarlet camera. Be a bit more than 4K with a few batteries and flash cards and such..but man that is an incredible beast!

Dan Keaton · July 9th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Dear Kevin,

We do not have it ready yet, but we expect to offer a small battery that will power the nanoFlash for over 3 hours.

(I am the Director of Sales and Marketing at Convergent Design, the makers of the nanoFlash and Flash XDR.)

Kevin Duffey · July 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM

Hi Dan,

That is nice.. any idea when it will be ready and what it will cost, and will it be a replaceable battery pack so I can have some extras ready or have to buy complete packs?

Dan Keaton · July 10th, 2009, 06:37 AM

Dear Kevin,

It will be a small battery pack with two Lithium-Ion cells, with a cable and connector for the nanoFlash. The individual cells are not user replaceable, just replace the entire battery.

It is too early to tell the exact pricing. We expect about $100 for one battery and one charger.

In our tests, it powers the nanoFlash for 3.5 hours.

Chris Hurd · July 10th, 2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

my fear is the HDMI plug is easily pulled out of the camera... so I am eager to discover a camera with the HD-SDI locking plug

No worries on the HDMI cable; just use a locking cable such as PPC's Locking HDMI cable (buy via PPC or see the overview at Review: PPC locking HDMI cable).

The single least expensive, most affordable camcorder with HD-SDI is the Canon XH G1S (or the earlier version, the XH G1). It retails for $7,000 but the earlier G1 might be found at used prices for less than that. $7,000 is quite a bit more than the cost of an HF S100, but it is still the lowest cost for getting into HD-SDI. In my opinion, your bank account will be much better off if you opt for the HF S100 and a locking HDMI cable. Hope this helps,

Kevin Duffey · July 10th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Man.. $7K? That can't be.. I mean I know you can get it for a lot less.. but all the canon/sony HD cameras in the 3K+ range don't have HD-SDI? I'll have to look again but I thought there was a $2K or so camera with HD-SDI... maybe it was HDMI.

Even so.. at that price, the RED Scarlet shows a current retail price of $3700 for the fixed lens, and $2500 for the brain alone for the replaceable lens setup. Their parts are very expensive.. $150 for a handle..holy crapolas.. but still, I would guess for 6K or so you could get a lens, battery, flash container and 4 flash cards and a handle or two for that price.. or close to it.

Chris Hurd · July 10th, 2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

Man.. $7K? That can't be.. I mean I know you can get it for a lot less.. but all the canon/sony HD cameras in the 3K+ range don't have HD-SDI? I'll have to look again but I thought there was a $2K or so camera with HD-SDI... maybe it was HDMI.

Sorry but you are mistaken. Actually, *none* of the video cameras from any manufacturer in the $3,000 to $6,000 range have HD-SDI output. Instead they will have Component video, FireWire or HDMI output. Sometimes a combination of all three. And, no there is no such thing as a $2,000 camera with HD-SDI.

Just a few years ago, prior to 2005, you'd have to spend upwards of $20,000 to get a video camera with HD-SDI. In Sept. 2005, Canon released the XL H1, which was the very first sub-$10K video camera with HD-SDI output (although it was not quite full spec; it did not carry audio over SDI). A year later Canon released the XH G1 for $7,000, which was the SDI version of the XH A1, released at the same time. Its replacement, the XH G1S, also priced at $7,000, is currently the single least expensive video camera equipped with HD-SDI output. The H1 was replaced by the XL H1S, same price as before (around $9,000) but its SDI output is now full specification (audio, TimeCode, etc.). Hope that helps.

Charles Papert · July 10th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Chris, isn't the Sony EX1 about $1000 cheaper than the XH-G1s...?

Chris Hurd · July 10th, 2009, 08:24 PM

How about that. I stand corrected -- it is the Sony PMW-EX1 then, at $6100, as the least expensive video camera with HD-SDI output. Thanks Chas,

Kris Zimbelman · July 30th, 2009, 09:28 PM

Here's one for $4,299 ( after rebate and e-mail price quote)
Panasonic AG-HPX170

Panasonic | AG-HPX170 P2HD Solid-State Camcorder | AG-HPX170

Input and Output Connectors
Component Video: Video Terminal (x1 Output)
Composite Video: RCA (x1 Output)
HD/SD-SDI: BNC (x1 Output)
Analog Audio L/R: 3-Pin XLR (x2 Input)
Line: Pin-Jack (x1 Output)
FireWire: 6-Pin Locking
USB 2.0: MiniB
Camera Remote: 2.5mm Super Mini (Zoom), 3.5mm Mini (Focus/Iris)

Allen Zagel · July 31st, 2009, 04:35 AM

Yes, the Panasonic AG-HPX170 has HD SDI. I recently purchased this camera and it's really great. Especially now that the P2 cards came down in price.

Allen

Michael LaHatte · August 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM

I'm totally new to this arena. I have a web design and hosting business and have decided to start doing web video and some TV advertising. I read a lot of posts and talked to a few people and decided to get the Canon HF-S10. I was really leaning towards the CANON HV40 but I didn't want to deal with tapes. I felt that tape was outdated technology plus Ive heard mixed reviews about tape noise. I was also leaning towards the Canon GL2 but I was told it was about a 7yr old camera and that the newer cameras with newer technology were better (the S10 being one of them). I'm not sure if that is the absolute truth or not but dropping $2k on 7yr old camera technology didn't seem wise. I bought a Canon HF-S10 package deal for $1729 (I hope it was a good deal):

Canon S10
Soft Case
32GB Memory Card
Tiffen Grounder Tripod
2 - 5 hour batteries
2 - Crystal Optics Telephoto Lens (2x and wide angle)
2 - External chargers (each have wall outlet and car outlet)
Lens Filters
Screen protectors
Cleaning kit
and some cheap table tripod that I can use on some other camera

July 9th, 2009, 07:13 PM	#1683
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Cheapest "best" HD camera with HD-SDI connector output Hey all, I am inches away from picking up the Canon HF S100 camera to use it's HDMI output and really good HD quality.. connected to initially a small "semi portable" Shuttle recording box with RAID HDs and the Intensity HDMI card. If I can swing it... I want to get the nanoFlash setup going. so I can have a portable HDMI uncompressed (almost) rig going for an affordable price. However my fear is the HDMI plug is easily pulled out of the camera... so I am eager to discover a camera with the HD-SDI locking plug as the nanoFlash and the Intensity card both support that as well, but is not hopefully too much more in price and offers as good an HD picture.. if not better than the canon does. I primarily want to use this to shoot stock video and weddings and events, not movies. It would be nice to have a camera with some sort of XLR like audio input and a mount for a boom mic as well for weddings/events. The most important thing is the HD-SDI output with locking plug, good optics and as low a price as possible. I am on a very tight budget (hence building a Shuttle computer with Intensity over buying the nanoFlash.. although it will limit my mobility unless I can find some sort of battery pack that can power the computer). Thank you.

July 9th, 2009, 07:42 PM	#1684
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	re: deciding on what to by Jay, I wish I had your budget! For $4K, if you're looking at a video camera.. after tons of reading.. I'd honestly opt for the Canon S100 and the nanoFlash unit. The nanoFlash is about $3K, plus you'll need a couple of 32GB flash cards..if not more. The Canon has an 8.59MP CMOS 1/2.6" censor on it, and using the HDMI port directly into the nanoFlash, you get near uncompressed video and audio. There are a couple posts on the net that show the Canon S10 (the same camera, $200 more but comes with 32GB internal flash ram.. if you're going to get the nanoFlash..no reason to waste $200 on internal flash memory) with the nanoFlash and it is stunning to say the least! If I had about 5K to spend (including extra batteries, case, flash cards) this is the way I would go right now. The image quality is stunning and you can edit the files quite easily in most editors. I say most because in talking with them recently they indicate that on windows, there are some bugs still for premiere pro.. that should be worked out within a month or so. I imagine you can convert the files.. or get CineForm and use their HDLink to convert to CineForm directly and use those, which do work in Premiere. Two issues have me looking (and I just asked a short while ago on this thread) about perhaps a slightly more professional camera. The lens/optics.. although it is very good on the canon.. being able to have the manual option like on the XH-A1 and such would be nice.. and having an HD-SDI locking connector would be better than the mini-HDMI on the S100/10 so that the cord doesn't get pulled out while you're recording..which could be easy to do. There is one other issue which I haven't worked out.. power supply for the nanoFlash. On more professional cameras it looks like they could power the nanoFlash. I am not sure otherwise..but I'll cross that bridge when I have that kind of budget. Then again..if I have a 4K or so budget, I am looking at the Red Scarlet camera. Be a bit more than 4K with a few batteries and flash cards and such..but man that is an incredible beast!

July 9th, 2009, 07:48 PM	#1685
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Kevin, We do not have it ready yet, but we expect to offer a small battery that will power the nanoFlash for over 3 hours. (I am the Director of Sales and Marketing at Convergent Design, the makers of the nanoFlash and Flash XDR.) __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 10th, 2009, 06:37 AM	#1687
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Kevin, It will be a small battery pack with two Lithium-Ion cells, with a cable and connector for the nanoFlash. The individual cells are not user replaceable, just replace the entire battery. It is too early to tell the exact pricing. We expect about $100 for one battery and one charger. In our tests, it powers the nanoFlash for 3.5 hours. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 10th, 2009, 08:11 PM	#1691
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Chris, isn't the Sony EX1 about $1000 cheaper than the XH-G1s...? __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 6th, 2009, 09:14 PM	#1681
Jackie Morton Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Buffalo, USA Posts: 63	Hey guys, I need to learn cinematography and make short films. I've been using an HV30 with a 30mm adapter and am now looking to upgrade to an XH A1, mainly because it's just within my budget, is also a Canon, and seems to be liked by a lot of people. Is this the cam for me if I'm basically looking to learn the manual controls and practice making films?

July 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM	#1686
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Hi Dan, That is nice.. any idea when it will be ready and what it will cost, and will it be a replaceable battery pack so I can have some extras ready or have to buy complete packs?

July 10th, 2009, 11:26 AM	#1689
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Man.. $7K? That can't be.. I mean I know you can get it for a lot less.. but all the canon/sony HD cameras in the 3K+ range don't have HD-SDI? I'll have to look again but I thought there was a $2K or so camera with HD-SDI... maybe it was HDMI. Even so.. at that price, the RED Scarlet shows a current retail price of $3700 for the fixed lens, and $2500 for the brain alone for the replaceable lens setup. Their parts are very expensive.. $150 for a handle..holy crapolas.. but still, I would guess for 6K or so you could get a lens, battery, flash container and 4 flash cards and a handle or two for that price.. or close to it.

July 10th, 2009, 08:24 PM	#1692
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	How about that. I stand corrected -- it is the Sony PMW-EX1 then, at $6100, as the least expensive video camera with HD-SDI output. Thanks Chas, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 30th, 2009, 09:28 PM	#1693
Kris Zimbelman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edmond Posts: 139	Here's one for $4,299 ( after rebate and e-mail price quote) Panasonic AG-HPX170 Panasonic \| AG-HPX170 P2HD Solid-State Camcorder \| AG-HPX170 Input and Output Connectors Component Video: Video Terminal (x1 Output) Composite Video: RCA (x1 Output) HD/SD-SDI: BNC (x1 Output) Analog Audio L/R: 3-Pin XLR (x2 Input) Line: Pin-Jack (x1 Output) FireWire: 6-Pin Locking USB 2.0: MiniB Camera Remote: 2.5mm Super Mini (Zoom), 3.5mm Mini (Focus/Iris) __________________ 73003

July 31st, 2009, 04:35 AM	#1694
Allen Zagel New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 17	Yes, the Panasonic AG-HPX170 has HD SDI. I recently purchased this camera and it's really great. Especially now that the P2 cards came down in price. Allen __________________ A World's first on DVD. Shanghai's new MagLev train Entire trip from the front end 267mph http://www.asxvideo.com

August 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM	#1695
Michael LaHatte Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Jackson, MS Posts: 44	I'm totally new to this arena. I have a web design and hosting business and have decided to start doing web video and some TV advertising. I read a lot of posts and talked to a few people and decided to get the Canon HF-S10. I was really leaning towards the CANON HV40 but I didn't want to deal with tapes. I felt that tape was outdated technology plus Ive heard mixed reviews about tape noise. I was also leaning towards the Canon GL2 but I was told it was about a 7yr old camera and that the newer cameras with newer technology were better (the S10 being one of them). I'm not sure if that is the absolute truth or not but dropping $2k on 7yr old camera technology didn't seem wise. I bought a Canon HF-S10 package deal for $1729 (I hope it was a good deal): Canon S10 Soft Case 32GB Memory Card Tiffen Grounder Tripod 2 - 5 hour batteries 2 - Crystal Optics Telephoto Lens (2x and wide angle) 2 - External chargers (each have wall outlet and car outlet) Lens Filters Screen protectors Cleaning kit and some cheap table tripod that I can use on some other camera