Im in a predicament (digital video vs. digital still) at DVinfo.net

Evan Fullwood · April 28th, 2004, 06:49 PM

Ok guys..
I dont know what do do.
Should i..
a)Wait and save another thousand up for the Gl2
or
b)Go ahead and buy the Digital rebel

I love taking pics and i can do it all the time.
But with the gl2 i would be able to film better than what i have with,and it would also be better for when i make my skating movies.

Chris Hurd · April 28th, 2004, 07:04 PM

Digital still camera vs. digital video camera... it can be a tough decision if you can only afford one or the other. While you're saving up the money to buy both, you might consider a hybrid camera for the time being.

The 3 megapixel Canon PowerShot S1 IS offers an image-stabilized 10x optical zoom plus an amazing 30fps video mode at 640x480. Not quite up to the DV spec, but it has the best video mode currently available among digicams. Price is under $500.

Or you might consider the 2mp Canon Optura Xi DV camcorder. Stills from the Xi will print at 8x10 under the right conditions and it includes a pop-up flash, hot shoe for a better flash attachment, continuous photo mode and photos while recording video. Price is under $1300.

Either one of these hybrids represents a compromise, but they are two possible solutions to having digital stills plus digital video in one camera within your budget. Hope this helps,

Gints Klimanis · April 28th, 2004, 07:21 PM

>The 3 megapixel Canon PowerShot S1 IS offers an image->stabilized 10x optical zoom plus an amazing 30fps video mode >at 640x480. Not quite up to the DV spec, but it has the best >video mode currently available among digicams. Price is under >$500.

Cool. I was looking at this camera, but the spec sheet on dpreview.com reads: 640x480, 15fps, max 30 sec.

Yeah, I'm really looking at 30fps video modes for my
next Camera. The new Sony DSC-F828, Nikon CoolPix8700, Minolta DiMAGE Z2 and some others also do
640x480 30 fps. The Sony came out on top with its streaming video modes (file size limited by flash card), but the image quality was dissed in all reviews .
Oh well. I guess I'll be waiting a while longer for a new digital
camera to replace my little Canon S40.

Nick Jushchyshyn · April 28th, 2004, 07:25 PM

You can pretty well approximate having a good digital still camera using a standard 35mm SLR and a $100 flat bed scanner. Not as convenient as a digitial photo cam, but it'll work.

Meanwhile, if you don't have a video camera up to the specs of a GL2 or better, you're missing out on all sorts of direct, manual adjustments, improved color and clarity of a prosumer camera for you video.

Just a couple factors for you to consider as you make your choice for this time around. :)

Have fun.

Evan Fullwood · April 28th, 2004, 07:40 PM

I have a scanner,but i think that it would help me out ALOT better if i were to just go ahead and get the digital camera..
I take pictures CONSTANTLY,and i just dont have the money to get the film developed.

Glenn Chan · April 28th, 2004, 08:57 PM

Make some money and get both. :)
If you can make good money with either, then get that one. It's probably cheaper to get started with photography- you pay less for a tripod, sound gear, and lighting (you may not even need ANY of those...).

Another way of looking at it is that you can hone your skill with still images first and then move onto the moving image (and sound).

Yet another way of looking at this is going the route with the lower long term cost. I can't tell which that is though. Both kinds of cameras are going to lose value to obsolescence (sic?). Highdef and cheaper video cameras are going to be coming out, and cheaper/better digital cameras are going to come out. Lenses for still cameras don't lose much value though. The photography route means you don't have to pay as much for processing anymore.

Evan Fullwood · April 28th, 2004, 09:07 PM

i have the tripod,and a little bit of lighitng
Ive been into film and photography for about a year,ive just never had the money to get better cameras

Roger Golub · April 29th, 2004, 01:35 PM

But what you don't say are what your requirements are for the digital stills....

Are you planning on doing 8 x 10 blow ups or severe crops? Do you just want stills for a web site or 4x6 prints?

If your answer is the former, then you need the digital still (but you don't really need a brand new Rebel, plenty of pretty good used digitals on Ebay).

If your still requirements are more modest, the GL2 can work for you. I've been impressed on what you can get by exporting a still from frame mode and playing with it in Photoshop.

It's not the resolution of my E10, but I don't have to carry both cameras around.

Hard question. Good luck.

Robert Mann Z. · April 29th, 2004, 02:44 PM

i own a rebel, one problem with it was even though the camera was only 999 i kept buying lenses till i was happy, it never ends...best bet buy what you would think you would get the most use out of...

keep in mind with a digital camera you can take almost endless amount of pictures, disk space is so cheap, cheaper then tape, no, but cheap enough to build a giant photo library, i started about 5 years ago with a sony dcs770 i'm up to 38,000+ pictures...

thats a lot of memories, every year we compile a years worth onto dvd and watch time go buy...

i love my digital world

Chris Hurd · May 3rd, 2004, 11:51 PM

Received via private email:

"You claim the camera does 30 fps (I assume for a short amount of time). and someone else claims it can record 30 seconds for 15 fps. I'm wondering who is correct?"

I am. The DP Review spec sheet stating 640x480, 15fps, max 30 sec. is in serious error. One of the best features of the new S1 IS is its revolutionary movie mode which records VGA size (640x480) at 30 fps (not 15) up to the capacity of the card (not just 30 seconds). I should know not only because that's what the manufacturer's spec sheets say, but also because I have an S1 IS here in the house. This unlimited movie mode is even more amazing because you can change focal length (zoom) and change exposure during recording, which is a first in the digicam marketplace. Hope this helps,

Rob Lohman · May 11th, 2004, 06:06 AM

Thanks for the clarification on this Chris. I do assume you need
those high-speed memory cards for this to work? Sounds quite
interesting. Does it store it as seperate JPEG's?

Chris Hurd · May 11th, 2004, 07:28 AM

High-speed CG cards are indeed a better choice for the S1 IS. Also, a high-capacity card is a must for the 30fps VGA movie mode. A 256mb CF card will barely hold two minutes of video. The files are motion-JPEG, encoded in the .AVI format.

Jeff Donald · May 11th, 2004, 08:15 AM

Have you tried Microdrives as a storage device? I would guess they are too slow. But the 4GB drives would give you around 30 minutes of storage.

Chris Hurd · May 11th, 2004, 08:23 AM

The S1 IS has a CF Type 2 slot to accept microdrives, but I can't afford those, so I haven't tried 'em!

Chris Hurd · May 11th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Sample S1 IS clips posted here.

April 28th, 2004, 06:49 PM	#1
Evan Fullwood New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fernandina beach florida Posts: 13	Im in a predicament Ok guys.. I dont know what do do. Should i.. a)Wait and save another thousand up for the Gl2 or b)Go ahead and buy the Digital rebel I love taking pics and i can do it all the time. But with the gl2 i would be able to film better than what i have with,and it would also be better for when i make my skating movies.

April 28th, 2004, 07:04 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Digital still camera vs. digital video camera... it can be a tough decision if you can only afford one or the other. While you're saving up the money to buy both, you might consider a hybrid camera for the time being. The 3 megapixel Canon PowerShot S1 IS offers an image-stabilized 10x optical zoom plus an amazing 30fps video mode at 640x480. Not quite up to the DV spec, but it has the best video mode currently available among digicams. Price is under $500. Or you might consider the 2mp Canon Optura Xi DV camcorder. Stills from the Xi will print at 8x10 under the right conditions and it includes a pop-up flash, hot shoe for a better flash attachment, continuous photo mode and photos while recording video. Price is under $1300. Either one of these hybrids represents a compromise, but they are two possible solutions to having digital stills plus digital video in one camera within your budget. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 3rd, 2004, 11:51 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Regarding the PowerShot S1 IS Received via private email: "You claim the camera does 30 fps (I assume for a short amount of time). and someone else claims it can record 30 seconds for 15 fps. I'm wondering who is correct?" I am. The DP Review spec sheet stating 640x480, 15fps, max 30 sec. is in serious error. One of the best features of the new S1 IS is its revolutionary movie mode which records VGA size (640x480) at 30 fps (not 15) up to the capacity of the card (not just 30 seconds). I should know not only because that's what the manufacturer's spec sheets say, but also because I have an S1 IS here in the house. This unlimited movie mode is even more amazing because you can change focal length (zoom) and change exposure during recording, which is a first in the digicam marketplace. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 11th, 2004, 06:06 AM	#11
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Thanks for the clarification on this Chris. I do assume you need those high-speed memory cards for this to work? Sounds quite interesting. Does it store it as seperate JPEG's? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 11th, 2004, 07:28 AM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	High-speed CG cards are indeed a better choice for the S1 IS. Also, a high-capacity card is a must for the 30fps VGA movie mode. A 256mb CF card will barely hold two minutes of video. The files are motion-JPEG, encoded in the .AVI format. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 28th, 2004, 07:21 PM	#3
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	>The 3 megapixel Canon PowerShot S1 IS offers an image->stabilized 10x optical zoom plus an amazing 30fps video mode >at 640x480. Not quite up to the DV spec, but it has the best >video mode currently available among digicams. Price is under >$500. Cool. I was looking at this camera, but the spec sheet on dpreview.com reads: 640x480, 15fps, max 30 sec. Yeah, I'm really looking at 30fps video modes for my next Camera. The new Sony DSC-F828, Nikon CoolPix8700, Minolta DiMAGE Z2 and some others also do 640x480 30 fps. The Sony came out on top with its streaming video modes (file size limited by flash card), but the image quality was dissed in all reviews . Oh well. I guess I'll be waiting a while longer for a new digital camera to replace my little Canon S40.

April 28th, 2004, 07:25 PM	#4
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	You can pretty well approximate having a good digital still camera using a standard 35mm SLR and a $100 flat bed scanner. Not as convenient as a digitial photo cam, but it'll work. Meanwhile, if you don't have a video camera up to the specs of a GL2 or better, you're missing out on all sorts of direct, manual adjustments, improved color and clarity of a prosumer camera for you video. Just a couple factors for you to consider as you make your choice for this time around. :) Have fun.

April 28th, 2004, 07:40 PM	#5
Evan Fullwood New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fernandina beach florida Posts: 13	I have a scanner,but i think that it would help me out ALOT better if i were to just go ahead and get the digital camera.. I take pictures CONSTANTLY,and i just dont have the money to get the film developed.

April 28th, 2004, 08:57 PM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Make some money and get both. :) If you can make good money with either, then get that one. It's probably cheaper to get started with photography- you pay less for a tripod, sound gear, and lighting (you may not even need ANY of those...). Another way of looking at it is that you can hone your skill with still images first and then move onto the moving image (and sound). Yet another way of looking at this is going the route with the lower long term cost. I can't tell which that is though. Both kinds of cameras are going to lose value to obsolescence (sic?). Highdef and cheaper video cameras are going to be coming out, and cheaper/better digital cameras are going to come out. Lenses for still cameras don't lose much value though. The photography route means you don't have to pay as much for processing anymore.

April 28th, 2004, 09:07 PM	#7
Evan Fullwood New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fernandina beach florida Posts: 13	i have the tripod,and a little bit of lighitng Ive been into film and photography for about a year,ive just never had the money to get better cameras

April 29th, 2004, 01:35 PM	#8
Roger Golub Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sitka, AK Posts: 46	But what you don't say are what your requirements are for the digital stills.... Are you planning on doing 8 x 10 blow ups or severe crops? Do you just want stills for a web site or 4x6 prints? If your answer is the former, then you need the digital still (but you don't really need a brand new Rebel, plenty of pretty good used digitals on Ebay). If your still requirements are more modest, the GL2 can work for you. I've been impressed on what you can get by exporting a still from frame mode and playing with it in Photoshop. It's not the resolution of my E10, but I don't have to carry both cameras around. Hard question. Good luck.

April 29th, 2004, 02:44 PM	#9
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	i own a rebel, one problem with it was even though the camera was only 999 i kept buying lenses till i was happy, it never ends...best bet buy what you would think you would get the most use out of... keep in mind with a digital camera you can take almost endless amount of pictures, disk space is so cheap, cheaper then tape, no, but cheap enough to build a giant photo library, i started about 5 years ago with a sony dcs770 i'm up to 38,000+ pictures... thats a lot of memories, every year we compile a years worth onto dvd and watch time go buy... i love my digital world

May 11th, 2004, 08:15 AM	#13
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Have you tried Microdrives as a storage device? I would guess they are too slow. But the 4GB drives would give you around 30 minutes of storage. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 11th, 2004, 08:23 AM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The S1 IS has a CF Type 2 slot to accept microdrives, but I can't afford those, so I haven't tried 'em! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 11th, 2004, 05:26 PM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Sample S1 IS clips posted here. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!