How do you archive? at DVinfo.net

Greg Paulson · July 6th, 2009, 07:34 PM

Greetings. My last two projects have been shot with a borrowed HDV camera, and now I'm wrapping the jobs up, I'm wondering how I should deliver all this data to the customers.

Original tapes are long gone, I've got triple backups on all data though. Most HDV files are about 12gb in size, uncompressed final segments are around 15gb in size. These are all too big to place onto DVD-Data discs, even +DL. I don't want to hand over 'original footage' that's been compressed just for the sake of fitting on a cheap disc.

So what does everyone else here do ? I would think a good deal on a lot of 80gb 2.5" HDD's solves most of these problems.

One of these projects is a dual broadcast/webcast deal, so I'm dealing with same content, just different name key designs. _SO_ much extra rendering and files to bugger around with.

Client will get original captured .mpeg files . Each broadcast edited segment (2mins) will be presented in uncompressed FullHD YUV 422 8bit, a letterboxed 720x480 YUV 422 8bit, a high rate Mpeg4 FullHD version of web video. Standalone items like animated intro & extro, music, so on.

Now, this might be overkill, or it might be a clean and tidy way to hand over a client's data. But should I keep a copy for myself? What if they come back for more work, and they've lost their HDD, and I could save their bacon ?

I'm sure it will just get put into a box somewhere and forgotten like an old VHS tape.

I've also got an HMC150 on it's way for Friday, so I better figure out something for future work.

Andrew Smith · July 7th, 2009, 07:19 PM

Backup to an external hard drive, preferably something such as a Western Digital "My Book Mirror Edition" unit which by default has two physical hard drives mirrored. If one drive should seize up over the years ... you still have another functioning drive with your data on it.

Also, document your file sets and the workflow used to generate the project. Not only does this look professional, but it makes it easier to remember in the future.

Lastly, you can bet that the client will probably lose it. Definitely keep a copy for yourself and let the client know where to call when they lose theirs. :-)

Andrew

Jim Andrada · July 8th, 2009, 12:08 AM

Well, the piece that fails in the disk unit could well be the control card, not the physical disks. Be paranoid and back up to two completely separate disk units.

Also, be aware that disks are not designed to sit on the shelf for long periods of time.I think these external disk drives are at best a medium term archive and should be periodically copied to something else or to a different disk.

Andrew Smith · July 8th, 2009, 12:27 AM

With the Western Digital unit, the hard drives inside are upgradeable and can be swapped out, etc. This means that in the event of a failure, you can always take a hard drive out and install it in to your computer.

Hard drives can be subject to stuck spindles, but if you switch them on every 6 months, that should do the job as far as lubrication goes.

After 5 years you should transition to new HDD units for optimum safety, but by then the potential for the client to need something may no longer be the case.

Verily, there is always plenty to discuss when it comes to archiving. There is no perfect method.

Andrew

Jim Andrada · July 8th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Unfortunately, the last time I had a disk controller fail, it neatly wiped out both raided disks by corrupting the data in some "clever" way

John Peterson · July 8th, 2009, 08:14 AM

For my Sony VX2000 I just keep the tapes. For my Sony PMW-EX1 I back the data up on a Western Digital MyBook at the same time that I transfer the Express Card data to my editing computer using Shotput Express. ShotPut Pro™ Panasonic P2, AVCHD, Sony SxS, JVC and RED ONE Offload Software [1112]

It allows simultaneous backup to three sources while transferring.

What I plan to do however is to back up to internal hard drives using an inexpensive Mobile Rack that mounts in an empty 5 1/4 inch space in my computer and that works GREAT.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
You can slip any SATA drive in there and remove it after you transfer your video files.

John

Perrone Ford · July 8th, 2009, 08:32 AM

I back up to BluRay. CompactFlash or SDHC are also viable for handoff. None are impervious to fire but the BluRay is impervious to water damage, and magnetic field. None have any moving parts so no risk of mechanical failures. All are generally impervious to heat and cold, as well as humidity. And the are all very space efficient.

I'd trust any of these much more easily than a HDV/miniDV tape, and I have loads of those.

In terms of cost, 25GB BluRays are about $3.50 each. About half the price of broadcast quality miniDV tape.

http://www.thenerds.net/IMATION.Memo...8203-2&affid=3

Greg Paulson · July 8th, 2009, 05:45 PM

I was more wondering about how to archive content and hand it over to a client.

My producer says she'll give each of out 24 clients on a large project, a DVD-Data with all the raw footage from each site , no problems there, everything fits.

Luckily I'm not burning those 24 discs.

But what to do when there is 40gb , or even more.

I think I'll just factor in an extra $100 for each gig, that covers my cost & time for getting things onto a pocket drive.

Ben Longden · July 9th, 2009, 04:35 AM

A common method used in Oz is to supply the client with an external hard drive, containing all of the shots, as captured off tape.

I usually place a copy of the edit decision list in there as well, so when it comes back to me, I can work on it straight away. I also place a copy of the final edited version of the project as well.

The clients love receiving these, and it has cemeted a greater relationship, as they feel they can trust me with their precious material.

Ben

July 6th, 2009, 07:34 PM	#1
Greg Paulson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Winnipeg , Manitoba, Canada Posts: 43	How do you archive? Greetings. My last two projects have been shot with a borrowed HDV camera, and now I'm wrapping the jobs up, I'm wondering how I should deliver all this data to the customers. Original tapes are long gone, I've got triple backups on all data though. Most HDV files are about 12gb in size, uncompressed final segments are around 15gb in size. These are all too big to place onto DVD-Data discs, even +DL. I don't want to hand over 'original footage' that's been compressed just for the sake of fitting on a cheap disc. So what does everyone else here do ? I would think a good deal on a lot of 80gb 2.5" HDD's solves most of these problems. One of these projects is a dual broadcast/webcast deal, so I'm dealing with same content, just different name key designs. _SO_ much extra rendering and files to bugger around with. Client will get original captured .mpeg files . Each broadcast edited segment (2mins) will be presented in uncompressed FullHD YUV 422 8bit, a letterboxed 720x480 YUV 422 8bit, a high rate Mpeg4 FullHD version of web video. Standalone items like animated intro & extro, music, so on. Now, this might be overkill, or it might be a clean and tidy way to hand over a client's data. But should I keep a copy for myself? What if they come back for more work, and they've lost their HDD, and I could save their bacon ? I'm sure it will just get put into a box somewhere and forgotten like an old VHS tape. I've also got an HMC150 on it's way for Friday, so I better figure out something for future work.

July 8th, 2009, 08:32 AM	#7
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I back up to BluRay. CompactFlash or SDHC are also viable for handoff. None are impervious to fire but the BluRay is impervious to water damage, and magnetic field. None have any moving parts so no risk of mechanical failures. All are generally impervious to heat and cold, as well as humidity. And the are all very space efficient. I'd trust any of these much more easily than a HDV/miniDV tape, and I have loads of those. In terms of cost, 25GB BluRays are about $3.50 each. About half the price of broadcast quality miniDV tape. http://www.thenerds.net/IMATION.Memo...8203-2&affid=3 __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

July 7th, 2009, 07:19 PM	#2
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	Backup to an external hard drive, preferably something such as a Western Digital "My Book Mirror Edition" unit which by default has two physical hard drives mirrored. If one drive should seize up over the years ... you still have another functioning drive with your data on it. Also, document your file sets and the workflow used to generate the project. Not only does this look professional, but it makes it easier to remember in the future. Lastly, you can bet that the client will probably lose it. Definitely keep a copy for yourself and let the client know where to call when they lose theirs. :-) Andrew

July 8th, 2009, 12:08 AM	#3
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Well, the piece that fails in the disk unit could well be the control card, not the physical disks. Be paranoid and back up to two completely separate disk units. Also, be aware that disks are not designed to sit on the shelf for long periods of time.I think these external disk drives are at best a medium term archive and should be periodically copied to something else or to a different disk.

July 8th, 2009, 12:27 AM	#4
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	With the Western Digital unit, the hard drives inside are upgradeable and can be swapped out, etc. This means that in the event of a failure, you can always take a hard drive out and install it in to your computer. Hard drives can be subject to stuck spindles, but if you switch them on every 6 months, that should do the job as far as lubrication goes. After 5 years you should transition to new HDD units for optimum safety, but by then the potential for the client to need something may no longer be the case. Verily, there is always plenty to discuss when it comes to archiving. There is no perfect method. Andrew

July 8th, 2009, 12:54 AM	#5
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Unfortunately, the last time I had a disk controller fail, it neatly wiped out both raided disks by corrupting the data in some "clever" way

July 8th, 2009, 08:14 AM	#6
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	For my Sony VX2000 I just keep the tapes. For my Sony PMW-EX1 I back the data up on a Western Digital MyBook at the same time that I transfer the Express Card data to my editing computer using Shotput Express. ShotPut Pro™ Panasonic P2, AVCHD, Sony SxS, JVC and RED ONE Offload Software [1112] It allows simultaneous backup to three sources while transferring. What I plan to do however is to back up to internal hard drives using an inexpensive Mobile Rack that mounts in an empty 5 1/4 inch space in my computer and that works GREAT. http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 You can slip any SATA drive in there and remove it after you transfer your video files. John

July 8th, 2009, 05:45 PM	#8
Greg Paulson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Winnipeg , Manitoba, Canada Posts: 43	I was more wondering about how to archive content and hand it over to a client. My producer says she'll give each of out 24 clients on a large project, a DVD-Data with all the raw footage from each site , no problems there, everything fits. Luckily I'm not burning those 24 discs. But what to do when there is 40gb , or even more. I think I'll just factor in an extra $100 for each gig, that covers my cost & time for getting things onto a pocket drive.

July 9th, 2009, 04:35 AM	#9
Ben Longden Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Echuca, Victoria, Australiamate Posts: 179	A common method used in Oz is to supply the client with an external hard drive, containing all of the shots, as captured off tape. I usually place a copy of the edit decision list in there as well, so when it comes back to me, I can work on it straight away. I also place a copy of the final edited version of the project as well. The clients love receiving these, and it has cemeted a greater relationship, as they feel they can trust me with their precious material. Ben