Again.. which are the native 16:9 cams?

John Gaspain · March 18th, 2004, 01:58 AM

Tommy, the DV953 does do it.

The 953 is the same as MX500, and the MX300 is a GS70. Look at this expanation
http://www.fortvir.net/modules.php?f...view_photo.php

Frank Granovski · March 18th, 2004, 02:19 AM

The 953 doesn't do it as good as the GS100. :-))

Quote:

the MX300 is a GS70

I have a MX300. I assure you it's not the GS70.

Alfred Okocha · March 18th, 2004, 05:18 AM

Thanks for all your replies.. I just tried to sort out which cams actually shot in 16:9 and which had a "wide mode" and just cropped the image.

Now I know alot more!

Tommy, you rank the PDX10 over PD150 and Pana DVX100?

Personally I don't know, Ihe never seen it in the "flesh"..

Tommy Haupfear · March 18th, 2004, 06:16 AM

Quote:

What does the Pro Cinema mode do?

Pro Cinema on the GS100 combines 16:9 mode, frame mode, and its cine-like gamma setting (similar to DVX100 but non adjustable).

Tommy Haupfear · March 18th, 2004, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Tommy, the DV953 does do it.

The 953 is the same as MX500, and the MX300 is a GS70. Look at this expanation

Unfortunately, only the PAL MX500 has no vertical zooming but remember that the MX5000 and DV953 are both NTSC and the Japanese website points out that there is a 1.3x vertical zoom in the MX5000/DV953 16:9 mode. Also important is that the DV953 is not widening the angle of view like the PDX10 or GS100. I originally thought the DV953 had the same 16:9 mode as the MX500 and I actually was the one that extracted the photo you linked to from a Powerpoint presenation on Frank's website. It wasn't until the GS100 debuted and they directly compared it to the NTSC MX5000/DV953 that I saw the difference.

Here is the link to the Panasonic website in Japan and the MX5000 is the first cam and the GS100 below it.

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/gs100k/ki_wide.html

As Frank mentioned the MX300 is the PAL equivalent of the Japanese MX3000 and was never released in North America.

Tommy Haupfear · March 18th, 2004, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Tommy, you rank the PDX10 over PD150 and Pana DVX100?

Alfred, sorry about that. The line was originally supposed to reflect that I prefer the PDX10 as the best widescreen cam under $5k. I went back and added it to my original post. :)

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 18th, 2004, 11:38 AM

> Pro Cinema on the GS100 combines 16:9 mode, frame mode,
> and its cine-like gamma setting (similar to DVX100
> but non adjustable).

Amazing.

Guy Bruner · March 18th, 2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

It wasn't until the GS100 debuted and they directly compared it to the NTSC MX5000/DV953 that I saw the difference.

Tommy, are you sure? According to one of my Japanese colleagues, that web page doesn't say anything about the MX5000. It says words like "old technology." It could just as easily be referring to other camcorders. Also, I have a PPT slide that is titled MX5000 that shows the same extraction method as the one for the MX500 (maybe it's a forgery?). In addition, postings on slashcam.com state that the DV953's widescreen mode is high quality. Finally, measurements I have made in widescreen mode show no resolution loss. At this point, I'm really confused.

Dave Largent · March 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM

"Amazing" is right Ignacio.
Tommy, that GS100 frame grab is something else!
So the GS100 has a 16:9 chip? The "frame mode" is
progressive scan? Or is it something like Canon's
frame mode, which as I understand, is not true
progressive.
Sorry for these basic questions. I haven't really
been following the GS seeing as it's not distributed
in the States. Is it European only? What's the best
way for someone in the States to get one?

Frank Granovski · March 18th, 2004, 05:40 PM

It's sold in Japan only, as Panasonic's flagship consumer cam. For buying info, contact Allan. See the first thread on the MX Forum.

Tommy Haupfear · March 18th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Tommy, are you sure?

I'll have my Japanese friends at work re-read the page to me tomorrow but also check out the preceding page (link below) that references the MX5000 and the 28% difference between it and the GS100.

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/gs100k/kinou.html

A MX5000 Powerpoint? Is it in Japanese? I have only seen the MX500 version but I'm not sure where it originated.

The DV953's wide mode is definitely high quality (no denying that). Here are my 16:9 frame grabs from the DV953.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...DV953wide1.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...DV953wide2.jpg

Tommy Haupfear · March 18th, 2004, 08:35 PM

Dave, the GS100 is native 4:3 but like the PDX10 it uses the extra pixels on the CCD to creat a high quality 16:9 mode.

Illustration of how the PDX10 achieves its 16:9 mode.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/74415/PDX10.jpg

The frame mode on the GS100 is similar to Canon in that it gives a progressive scan look but at the cost of some resolution. Panasonic frame mode can also be found on the AG-EZ50U and PV-DV953.

Mikhail Transact · May 22nd, 2004, 10:21 AM

May be some people don't know about Sony 16:9 trick in PC330, TRV60/80.
Resolution in 16:9 decreases while zooming. It's hapends because amount of pixels is decreased during zoom is increased. It is illustrated here:
http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/...otfairplay.gif

I suppose Sony DCR-HC85E and others HC* has the same trick.

Tommy Haupfear · May 22nd, 2004, 06:41 PM

Mikhail, its odd the way some Sony cams reduce the field of view in 16:9 mode. The TRV33 actually documents this "feature" in the manual.

John Hartney · May 22nd, 2004, 08:56 PM

Are you looking at only low end DV25 cameras?

There are lots of digital cameras that operate in true 16:9 in many formats...

Que?

March 18th, 2004, 01:58 AM	#16
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	Tommy, the DV953 does do it. The 953 is the same as MX500, and the MX300 is a GS70. Look at this expanation http://www.fortvir.net/modules.php?f...view_photo.php __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

March 18th, 2004, 11:38 AM	#22
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> Pro Cinema on the GS100 combines 16:9 mode, frame mode, > and its cine-like gamma setting (similar to DVX100 > but non adjustable). Amazing. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

May 22nd, 2004, 10:21 AM	#28
Mikhail Transact Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 60	May be some people don't know about Sony 16:9 trick in PC330, TRV60/80. Resolution in 16:9 decreases while zooming. It's hapends because amount of pixels is decreased during zoom is increased. It is illustrated here: http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/...otfairplay.gif I suppose Sony DCR-HC85E and others HC* has the same trick. __________________ Mikhail

May 22nd, 2004, 08:56 PM	#30
John Hartney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Elgin, Illinois Posts: 206	Are you looking at only low end DV25 cameras? There are lots of digital cameras that operate in true 16:9 in many formats... Que? __________________ John Hartney Elgin, Illinois USA 847.742.9321

March 18th, 2004, 05:18 AM	#18
Alfred Okocha Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 427	Thanks for all your replies.. I just tried to sort out which cams actually shot in 16:9 and which had a "wide mode" and just cropped the image. Now I know alot more! Tommy, you rank the PDX10 over PD150 and Pana DVX100? Personally I don't know, Ihe never seen it in the "flesh"..

March 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM	#24
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	"Amazing" is right Ignacio. Tommy, that GS100 frame grab is something else! So the GS100 has a 16:9 chip? The "frame mode" is progressive scan? Or is it something like Canon's frame mode, which as I understand, is not true progressive. Sorry for these basic questions. I haven't really been following the GS seeing as it's not distributed in the States. Is it European only? What's the best way for someone in the States to get one?

March 18th, 2004, 05:40 PM	#25
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	It's sold in Japan only, as Panasonic's flagship consumer cam. For buying info, contact Allan. See the first thread on the MX Forum.

March 18th, 2004, 08:35 PM	#27
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Dave, the GS100 is native 4:3 but like the PDX10 it uses the extra pixels on the CCD to creat a high quality 16:9 mode. Illustration of how the PDX10 achieves its 16:9 mode. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/74415/PDX10.jpg The frame mode on the GS100 is similar to Canon in that it gives a progressive scan look but at the cost of some resolution. Panasonic frame mode can also be found on the AG-EZ50U and PV-DV953.

May 22nd, 2004, 06:41 PM	#29
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Mikhail, its odd the way some Sony cams reduce the field of view in 16:9 mode. The TRV33 actually documents this "feature" in the manual.