Clapping slates. Action. at DVinfo.net

Kevin Lee · March 7th, 2004, 07:54 AM

Just curious.
Since we're about dv in this forum, i'm just curious as to how many of you still practise clapping slates (marking for sound syncing) when shooting on dv with audio recorded direct to tape.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · March 7th, 2004, 09:24 AM

I still use one. My first attempts in filming with DV was with some consumer camcorders without mic-in. I recorded the sound to an external minidisc unit so I used a clap to sync. Today I still use it, it's an habit. But I found it useful to have the first frame of each clib beginning with the scene numbering on it to spot it faster on my computer.

Daniel Kohl · March 7th, 2004, 09:34 AM

I don’t use one since I’ve switched to video. But using a mark at the beginning of each take is a good idea if you have someone to hold it in frame for you. It’s a good idea have a chip chart for color correction, and as Jean-Philippe mentioned a direct indication of what scene is up while capturing and editing. In the long run it can save a lot of time.

Just a bit of trivia – does anyone know what the anagram "MOS” stands for on a slate?

Marco Leavitt · March 7th, 2004, 10:35 AM

I would swear that the audio drifts a frame or two on my GL1. I think slating it might not be a bad idea even if you record direct to camera.

Kevin Lee · March 7th, 2004, 10:50 AM

or you could just push it a frame forward.
hah.
guess it makes for better filming then videotaping. Gets the passion and performance going i suppose.

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 7th, 2004, 12:21 PM

> I would swear that the audio drifts a frame or two on my GL1.
> I think slating it might not be a bad idea even if you record
> direct to camera.

Many MiniDV cameras seem to suffer from delayed video (or early audio, if you prefer) ... this is because it takes more time to process the video that is going to tape and most venders want to keep costs as low as possible so there is no delay line for the audio built-in. A notable exception, Sony semi pro Mini DV's like the PD150, PD170 and PDX10 seem not to have this problem. The DVX100 has a noticable delay of up to 4 frames video vs. audio but it seems to have been fixed in the DVX100A, according to Adam Wilt. Note: this has nothing to do with locked or unlocked audio.

Dylan Couper · March 7th, 2004, 12:37 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Kohl :
Just a bit of trivia – does anyone know what the anagram "MOS” stands for on a slate? -->>>

Mit Out Sound!!!

I clap a set of sticks if shooting multiple cameras, although any sharp sound will work. If I have a produciton assistant marking takes, then I'll slate each shot to make editing a little smoother. Sometimes I just skip it if we are in a rush to shoot.

Aaron Koolen · March 7th, 2004, 02:11 PM

I used a marker slate (No clap) for LadyX. Never ued one before but I found it really good for in helping me find stuff. If I had of had proper adjustable timecode, or had some way of seeing it on the XM2 without having to playback, I probably would have tried to log the takes, but I didn't. We also had a pretty small crew and we were working like mad so I probably would have let the logging fall away ;)

I would definately use one if I was doing double system recording.

Aaron

Daniel Kohl · March 8th, 2004, 03:48 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper :

Mit Out Sound!!!

That’s funny – I used to think exactly the same thing, until I moved to Germany. I wonder how that got around. I guess everyone knew it had to be something German-like.

MOS stands for "Markierung Ohne Sync” which means Mark without (ohne) Synchronized-sound.

Rick Bravo · March 8th, 2004, 08:07 AM

The term "M O S" is used, on a slate, when a scene is filmed without sync sound (or any sound).

What MOS orginally stood for is still up for discussion.

The "Mit out Sound" legend.

Some of the early directors in Hollywood, whose first language was German, had trouble with the sound "with". So instead of saying, " we are recording this scene "without sound" the words came out "We are recording this scene mitout sound. Because this word corruption, MOS means "without sound"

MOS may also stand for...

Minus optical signal
Minus optical sound
Minus optical stripe
Muted on screen
Mute on sound
Mic off stage
Music on side
Motor only shot
Motor only sync

Mixer Outside Smoking!

RB

Rob Belics · March 8th, 2004, 08:45 AM

>>Minus optical signal
Minus optical sound
Minus optical stripe
Muted on screen
Mute on sound
Mic off stage
Music on side
Motor only shot
Motor only sync

Mixer Outside Smmoking!<<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never heard of any of those before.

Daniel Kohl · March 8th, 2004, 09:27 AM

Sssssh...Mother on Set

Kevin Lee · March 8th, 2004, 10:51 AM

bravo bravo.
seems you all clap clap then.

Dylan Couper · March 8th, 2004, 11:39 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : >>Minus optical signal
Minus optical sound
Minus optical stripe
Muted on screen
Mute on sound
Mic off stage
Music on side
Motor only shot
Motor only sync

Mixer Outside Smmoking!<<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never heard of any of those before. -->>>

Me neither, but from now on, I'm telling people it is "Mixer Outside Smoking"

Never heard Markierung Ohne Sync either, but it sounds more likely than Mit Out Sound

Kevin Burnfield · March 8th, 2004, 04:03 PM

I have a slate that across the sticks it has color stripes going from black, mid-grey, white and so on up the line.

When I capture footage or drop footage into the NLE I always make sure that keep that tagged on the front so I can color correct off them.

Slates help you keep track of 'good' takes marked by the person keeping track of shots, shot numbers and any notes on each shot.

Not only that but when I'm logging footage I can make note of the take out of them I want to use when I"m editing the piece together.

Without the slate information how can you tell which are good and which are bad takes? It's nice to be able to know before you get wrapped up in a shot that you think looks great only to go bad.

In the advent of the audio falling out of sync you can perhaps get it back by matching up like you would sync sound.

March 7th, 2004, 07:54 AM	#1
Kevin Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 224	Clapping slates. Action. Just curious. Since we're about dv in this forum, i'm just curious as to how many of you still practise clapping slates (marking for sound syncing) when shooting on dv with audio recorded direct to tape.

March 7th, 2004, 09:24 AM	#2
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	I still use one. My first attempts in filming with DV was with some consumer camcorders without mic-in. I recorded the sound to an external minidisc unit so I used a clap to sync. Today I still use it, it's an habit. But I found it useful to have the first frame of each clib beginning with the scene numbering on it to spot it faster on my computer. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

March 7th, 2004, 09:34 AM	#3
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	I don’t use one since I’ve switched to video. But using a mark at the beginning of each take is a good idea if you have someone to hold it in frame for you. It’s a good idea have a chip chart for color correction, and as Jean-Philippe mentioned a direct indication of what scene is up while capturing and editing. In the long run it can save a lot of time. Just a bit of trivia – does anyone know what the anagram "MOS” stands for on a slate? __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

March 7th, 2004, 12:21 PM	#6
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> I would swear that the audio drifts a frame or two on my GL1. > I think slating it might not be a bad idea even if you record > direct to camera. Many MiniDV cameras seem to suffer from delayed video (or early audio, if you prefer) ... this is because it takes more time to process the video that is going to tape and most venders want to keep costs as low as possible so there is no delay line for the audio built-in. A notable exception, Sony semi pro Mini DV's like the PD150, PD170 and PDX10 seem not to have this problem. The DVX100 has a noticable delay of up to 4 frames video vs. audio but it seems to have been fixed in the DVX100A, according to Adam Wilt. Note: this has nothing to do with locked or unlocked audio. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 7th, 2004, 12:37 PM	#7
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Kohl : Just a bit of trivia – does anyone know what the anagram "MOS” stands for on a slate? -->>> Mit Out Sound!!! I clap a set of sticks if shooting multiple cameras, although any sharp sound will work. If I have a produciton assistant marking takes, then I'll slate each shot to make editing a little smoother. Sometimes I just skip it if we are in a rush to shoot. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 7th, 2004, 10:35 AM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I would swear that the audio drifts a frame or two on my GL1. I think slating it might not be a bad idea even if you record direct to camera.

March 7th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#5
Kevin Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 224	or you could just push it a frame forward. hah. guess it makes for better filming then videotaping. Gets the passion and performance going i suppose.

March 7th, 2004, 02:11 PM	#8
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I used a marker slate (No clap) for LadyX. Never ued one before but I found it really good for in helping me find stuff. If I had of had proper adjustable timecode, or had some way of seeing it on the XM2 without having to playback, I probably would have tried to log the takes, but I didn't. We also had a pretty small crew and we were working like mad so I probably would have let the logging fall away ;) I would definately use one if I was doing double system recording. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

March 8th, 2004, 03:48 AM	#9
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	MOS <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : Mit Out Sound!!! That’s funny – I used to think exactly the same thing, until I moved to Germany. I wonder how that got around. I guess everyone knew it had to be something German-like. MOS stands for "Markierung Ohne Sync” which means Mark without (ohne) Synchronized-sound. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

March 8th, 2004, 08:07 AM	#10
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	The term "M O S" is used, on a slate, when a scene is filmed without sync sound (or any sound). What MOS orginally stood for is still up for discussion. The "Mit out Sound" legend. Some of the early directors in Hollywood, whose first language was German, had trouble with the sound "with". So instead of saying, " we are recording this scene "without sound" the words came out "We are recording this scene mitout sound. Because this word corruption, MOS means "without sound" MOS may also stand for... Minus optical signal Minus optical sound Minus optical stripe Muted on screen Mute on sound Mic off stage Music on side Motor only shot Motor only sync Mixer Outside Smoking! RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

March 8th, 2004, 08:45 AM	#11
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	>>Minus optical signal Minus optical sound Minus optical stripe Muted on screen Mute on sound Mic off stage Music on side Motor only shot Motor only sync Mixer Outside Smmoking!<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I never heard of any of those before.

March 8th, 2004, 09:27 AM	#12
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Sssssh...Mother on Set __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

March 8th, 2004, 10:51 AM	#13
Kevin Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 224	bravo bravo. seems you all clap clap then.

March 8th, 2004, 11:39 AM	#14
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : >>Minus optical signal Minus optical sound Minus optical stripe Muted on screen Mute on sound Mic off stage Music on side Motor only shot Motor only sync Mixer Outside Smmoking!<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I never heard of any of those before. -->>> Me neither, but from now on, I'm telling people it is "Mixer Outside Smoking" Never heard Markierung Ohne Sync either, but it sounds more likely than Mit Out Sound __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 8th, 2004, 04:03 PM	#15
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	I have a slate that across the sticks it has color stripes going from black, mid-grey, white and so on up the line. When I capture footage or drop footage into the NLE I always make sure that keep that tagged on the front so I can color correct off them. Slates help you keep track of 'good' takes marked by the person keeping track of shots, shot numbers and any notes on each shot. Not only that but when I'm logging footage I can make note of the take out of them I want to use when I"m editing the piece together. Without the slate information how can you tell which are good and which are bad takes? It's nice to be able to know before you get wrapped up in a shot that you think looks great only to go bad. In the advent of the audio falling out of sync you can perhaps get it back by matching up like you would sync sound.