Best DV codecs? at DVinfo.net

Brandt Wilson · February 2nd, 2004, 01:23 PM

This morning I went over the Mainconcepts.de website and saw that they had their own DV codec, which they maintain is the best rated codec out there.

Which DV codecs appear to preserve the best image quality after rendering, and which editing apps support them?

Johann Adler · February 2nd, 2004, 04:08 PM

Hi,

The best DV codec is arguably Canapus DV Codec. Its playback filter is available for free. There have been many tests done that show it degrades under sequential compressions best and its playback filter is also of the highest quality. This codec also maintains the DV format's 16-235 levels.

Best Regards

Bill Ravens · February 2nd, 2004, 04:18 PM

the mainconcept DV codec is one of the best DV codecs available, with the possible exception of the proprietary codecs available from Canopus, Sony Vegas, etc. I beleive it allows a choice of 601 legal or non-clipped color space.

Robert Mann Z. · February 2nd, 2004, 10:36 PM

http://www.emptyloft.com/video5/codec.html

simple test

Casey Visco · February 3rd, 2004, 10:08 AM

In my own rather extensive testing of codecs recently, the results of which i'll write up and put online at some point soon, the Canopus was the hands down winner.

I actually starting testing other codecs after having such a bad time with the main concept codec. With each succesive generation of a Main Concept file, grossly unappealing mosaic-like blocks began to appear. This was most evident in skies, or walls where gradients might appear, but in some cases on people too!

You can see an approximate effect of this blockiness on the site Robert posted: (Image: http://www.emptyloft.com/video5/dc10004mbits.bmp). And yes, i realize that the image i reference here is not in the main concept codec, this is merely an illustration of the effect that it produces.

Whats worse is that this blockiness was very strong when I simply placed a solid color matte on the timeline and did a fade out or a dissolve on it. (Premiere Pro) Instantly, a heavy mosaic pattern would appear. I'm still baffled at how it could generate that from a single color!

So I moved on and got Matrox's codec and noticed that it handled all of the gradients and solids, and just about every peice of footage I could throw at it when you reduced a couple of generations. I quickly learned however that with each succesive generation, more and more noise was added in the image and by the 4th generation, the footage was largely unwatchable.

On to the Canopus codec (comes with ProCoder). Rejoice. I gave it a tough peice of footage (strong blue gradients, etc), the same i'd given all the others, and it handled it like a pro. No blocks, no noise. I did 10 generations with this one and the footage was still very tolerable, looking better than matrox's 3rd generation and better than main concepts 2nd generation.

Hope this helps

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 10:13 AM

matrox and avid use softners in ther codec which produce a very nice first gen, but softners tend to hurt future gens...

i saw very little diff with canopus and main concept codec, neither use softners...

the now 6 year old dc card still outshines dv at 25mbits, the 4mbits was thrown in for comparsion purposes...

Casey Visco · February 3rd, 2004, 10:26 AM

I've noticed with most codecs that first generations are never a problem at all, as was the case with my testing, once you got beyond that is when they start to fall apart.

Rob Lohman · February 3rd, 2004, 06:11 PM

I've seen that test a couple of times before? Isn't that quite
old already?

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 07:07 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I've seen that test a couple of times before? Isn't that quite
old already? -->>>

rob i put that test together about two years ago...so yes it's aged but the codecs have not changed much

Brandt Wilson · February 3rd, 2004, 11:50 PM

So is the Canopus codec the concensus?

How well will it hold up to repeated recompression, such as out of the NLE into After Effects, then out of After Effects and back into the NLE, to the VTR? Nearly all of my current project will be subject to 2 or 3 render passes, and I'm concerned about how it will hold up.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 4th, 2004, 12:04 AM

Depending on the length of your clips and the amount of storage space you have, you may elect to use a lossless codec for the intermediate steps, and only in the final phase recompress to DV.

Ben Gurvich · February 4th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Is this codec free?

Can i use it with an OHCI card?

Robert Mann Z. · February 4th, 2004, 08:00 AM

free it is not ....

mainconcept is 50 bucks...

canopus can only be attained by buying one of there hardware cards...procoder software...or edius there new nle...

February 2nd, 2004, 01:23 PM	#1
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Best DV codecs? This morning I went over the Mainconcepts.de website and saw that they had their own DV codec, which they maintain is the best rated codec out there. Which DV codecs appear to preserve the best image quality after rendering, and which editing apps support them?

February 3rd, 2004, 10:08 AM	#5
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	In my own rather extensive testing of codecs recently, the results of which i'll write up and put online at some point soon, the Canopus was the hands down winner. I actually starting testing other codecs after having such a bad time with the main concept codec. With each succesive generation of a Main Concept file, grossly unappealing mosaic-like blocks began to appear. This was most evident in skies, or walls where gradients might appear, but in some cases on people too! You can see an approximate effect of this blockiness on the site Robert posted: (Image: http://www.emptyloft.com/video5/dc10004mbits.bmp). And yes, i realize that the image i reference here is not in the main concept codec, this is merely an illustration of the effect that it produces. Whats worse is that this blockiness was very strong when I simply placed a solid color matte on the timeline and did a fade out or a dissolve on it. (Premiere Pro) Instantly, a heavy mosaic pattern would appear. I'm still baffled at how it could generate that from a single color! So I moved on and got Matrox's codec and noticed that it handled all of the gradients and solids, and just about every peice of footage I could throw at it when you reduced a couple of generations. I quickly learned however that with each succesive generation, more and more noise was added in the image and by the 4th generation, the footage was largely unwatchable. On to the Canopus codec (comes with ProCoder). Rejoice. I gave it a tough peice of footage (strong blue gradients, etc), the same i'd given all the others, and it handled it like a pro. No blocks, no noise. I did 10 generations with this one and the footage was still very tolerable, looking better than matrox's 3rd generation and better than main concepts 2nd generation. Hope this helps __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

February 3rd, 2004, 10:26 AM	#7
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	I've noticed with most codecs that first generations are never a problem at all, as was the case with my testing, once you got beyond that is when they start to fall apart. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

February 3rd, 2004, 06:11 PM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I've seen that test a couple of times before? Isn't that quite old already? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 4th, 2004, 12:04 AM	#11
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Depending on the length of your clips and the amount of storage space you have, you may elect to use a lossless codec for the intermediate steps, and only in the final phase recompress to DV. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 2nd, 2004, 04:08 PM	#2
Johann Adler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 40	Hi, The best DV codec is arguably Canapus DV Codec. Its playback filter is available for free. There have been many tests done that show it degrades under sequential compressions best and its playback filter is also of the highest quality. This codec also maintains the DV format's 16-235 levels. Best Regards

February 2nd, 2004, 04:18 PM	#3
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	the mainconcept DV codec is one of the best DV codecs available, with the possible exception of the proprietary codecs available from Canopus, Sony Vegas, etc. I beleive it allows a choice of 601 legal or non-clipped color space.

February 2nd, 2004, 10:36 PM	#4
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	http://www.emptyloft.com/video5/codec.html simple test

February 3rd, 2004, 10:13 AM	#6
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	matrox and avid use softners in ther codec which produce a very nice first gen, but softners tend to hurt future gens... i saw very little diff with canopus and main concept codec, neither use softners... the now 6 year old dc card still outshines dv at 25mbits, the 4mbits was thrown in for comparsion purposes...

February 3rd, 2004, 07:07 PM	#9
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I've seen that test a couple of times before? Isn't that quite old already? -->>> rob i put that test together about two years ago...so yes it's aged but the codecs have not changed much

February 3rd, 2004, 11:50 PM	#10
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	So is the Canopus codec the concensus? How well will it hold up to repeated recompression, such as out of the NLE into After Effects, then out of After Effects and back into the NLE, to the VTR? Nearly all of my current project will be subject to 2 or 3 render passes, and I'm concerned about how it will hold up.

February 4th, 2004, 12:26 AM	#12
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	Is this codec free? Can i use it with an OHCI card?

February 4th, 2004, 08:00 AM	#13
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	free it is not .... mainconcept is 50 bucks... canopus can only be attained by buying one of there hardware cards...procoder software...or edius there new nle...