Need Help?? DV100 or xl1s at DVinfo.net

Eric Steiner · January 20th, 2004, 01:54 PM

I want to film out doors too but want to know why I should buy the Pan dv100 in stead of the canon xl1s.

How is Abesofmaine?Anybody got any feedback?

Shawn Mielke · January 20th, 2004, 06:35 PM

And you've read the pages and pages and pages of material regarding both of these camcorders, and know, more specifically than "outdoors", what kind of shooting you want to do?

Do you want to shoot in 24 or 30 fps?

Do you want to be able to change lenses, and are you prepared to pay a whole lot, over time, for this feature?

How important is native XLR sound to you?

Dylan Couper · January 20th, 2004, 06:47 PM

Please tell us exactly what you want to shoot with it, and for what purposes, and we will be able to give you more feedback.

Abe's Of Main is considered a shadier place by some, but check the seller ratings website that Frank Granovski posted for you earlier.

Eric Steiner · January 20th, 2004, 07:17 PM

Most importantly I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot.I am not real clear on the 24 versus th 30 or 29.97,I have never seen two videos side by side.Is there a dramatic difference?And yes I would like the ability to interchange lenses.Wouldn't anyone?I also want to shoot upclose.Which camera is better and why?

Dylan Couper · January 20th, 2004, 07:30 PM

http://www.resellerratings.com

Don Berube · January 20th, 2004, 07:52 PM

>>>>>>Most importantly I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot.

- Then get the XL1S and take advantage of the EF Adaptor.

>>>>>>I am not real clear on the 24 versus th 30 or 29.97,I have never seen two videos side by side.

- Chances are you don't have a strong need for 24P then. You stated you want to shoot nature wildlife. You will need an interchangeable lens. The DVX100 does not offer interchangeable lens capability. It wouldn't make sense for you to give up interchangeable lenses just to have 24P capture. Then you would never quite be able to grab tight shots on any wildlife, as you would be somewhat limited with a fixed wider-than-average 10X lens. Sure, you could install a Century Optics 2X Teleconvertor adaptor in front of the DVX100 to get 20X, but it still won't produce the extreme close-ups that the Canon Xl1S, EF adaptor and Canon EOS IS lens will. For example, using the EF adaptor with a Canon EOS IS lens will magnify the effective focal length of that lens by a factor of 7.2X - that is great news for nature wildlife photogs. You could then use a lens such as the Canon EF 28 - 135 mm f/3.5 - 5.6 IS US? lens - that would give you a 201.6mm - 972mm zoom lens WITH Image Stabilization. That lens can be purchased for just a little over $400. That's a highly affordable solution for getting a nice, tight shot for nature & wildlife shooters.

>>>>>>Is there a dramatic difference?

- You could say so. Is it going to make or break your nature wildflife footage? Nope. Well, it would if you decided to opt out on interchangeable lens capability just for 24P.

>>>>>>And yes I would like the ability to interchange lenses.

- Your opening statement: "I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot" pretty much dictated that you would greatly benefit from the ability to use interchangeable lenses. Especially the EF adaptor and a good Canon EOS IS lens.

>>>>>>Wouldn't anyone?

- You would think so, but not necessarily. Some people get along fine for what they are doing with a fixed auto servo lens. I like the ability to use what I want in front of the image plane. It means I have a lot of control straight to where the capture is made.

>>>>>>I also want to shoot upclose.

- Then get the Canon 16X Manual/ Servo lens and take advantage of the Macro feature. 'Nuff said?

>>>>>>Which camera is better and why?

- Neither camera is better than the other. It comes down to which camera has the features that you need for your particular application.

- don

Shawn Mielke · January 20th, 2004, 08:04 PM

See, that's the thing. Neither is better, despite what some are going to want to tell you.
Regarding interchangeability of lenses, there are some folks who shoot fast breaking events, and want a simple, high quality package without needing to lug around bags and bags of stuff. The ability of Int. lenses might be lost on them. That's why we ask about want you want.
We don't know you.
That said, please to meet you, Eric. You probably want something with a long zoom, for wildlife shoots. There are zoom adaptors for most cams, but they're often limited in what they can do, and expensive for what they are, IMO, although I'm by no means against using them. It sounds like the XL1S might be the most flexible tool for your stated applications.
Also, the XL1S offers a Movie Mode, or something like that, which is a fake 30fps feature, very popular with many owners of this cam, though it does mean a loss of resolution. I would read up on this cam, and it's lens options, but also the better zoom adaptors available, particularly the ones for the DVX100.

Eric Steiner · January 20th, 2004, 08:05 PM

Thanks Very much for the input.One more question,why would you want to buy a dv100 from panasonic??

Glenn Chan · January 20th, 2004, 08:38 PM

It's a bit sharper, it has manual gamma controls, a very good picture, great audio, 24p, 30p (real progressive scan), etc.

dv.com has a good review of the DVX100.

Frank Granovski · January 20th, 2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks Very much for the input.One more question,why would you want to buy a dv100 from panasonic??

Panasonic - tomorrow's technology today.

Shawn Mielke · January 20th, 2004, 09:10 PM

I would say, without having used the DVX100, that, other than having a fixed lens, the Panasonic is my preference in every other way.

It's newer technology.
It has native XLRs and is rated as having some of THE best dv cam audio circuitry around.
It has a wealth of image controls that are available only on bigger cams.
It's smaller.

Which isn't to say that the XL1S doesn't produce pleasing images, but, for me, the above points take priority.

Don Berube · January 20th, 2004, 09:23 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : I would say, without having used the DVX100, that, other than having a fixed lens, the Panasonic is my preference in every other way.

It's newer technology.
It has native XLRs and is rated as having some of THE best dv cam audio circuitry around.
It has a wealth of image controls that are available only on bigger cams.
It's smaller.

Which isn't to say that the XL1S doesn't produce pleasing images, but, for me, the above points take priority. -->>>

They may take priority for you, and that is totally cool. But let's stick to the topic of this thread and the original application which Eric stated which was shooting nature & wildlife... What are you going to do when you are out there in the fields or the woods and you see an animal 100 yards away - do you think you are going to be satisfied with a 10X fixed zoom lens? C'mon, all you are going to get is either a very wide shot where you can barely see the animal -or- your'e going to get a shot of nothing, because as you try to get closer to the animal to get a tighter shot, it is going to run away as you make your presence known. In that situation, your'e going to wish you had the XL1S, EF adaptor and EOS IS lens.

I'm not debating whether or not the DVX100 produces a more resolute image or is better in low light or is newer technology. We all know that by now. Again, you use the right tool for the job. Heck, I shot my last short with the DVX100 and it looked sweet when it showed on a huge 20' projection screen in the Panasonic Theatre at the 2003 LA DV Film Festival. Was it a nature & wildlife piece? No,,, if it was, I would have used the Xl1S. Any wildlife photographer is going to seriously appreciate Image Stabilized extreme-telephoto lens capability, as that is going to make or break their shot more often than not - not 24P.

- don

Ken Tanaka · January 20th, 2004, 11:09 PM

I've owned an XL1s (and and XL1 before that) for quite some time. I also own a DVX100 and, at this writing, have a DVX100A en route to me this week.

I continue to be really impresed by how good the DVX100 really is, and by how much real value Panasonic has packed into this (relatively) spare-change-budget camera. This is a really remarkable camera, particularly for dramatic work. Very sharp and fast optics (whoever -really- makes them), etc.

But.

If I were doing wildlife work I wouldn't even dream of attempting it with the DVX100. It's fixed optical package just can't reach nearly far enough. It just wouldn't cut the mustard unless the "wildlife" was actually something that you could get quite close to shoot (ex: ant armies, the family cat, cows grazing, et.al.).

The XL1s' ability to adapt to using Canon's enormous selection of outstanding EF lenses would be -the- key determining factor for its selection. This is one area where the XL1s leaves the DVX100 in the dust. Hands-down, no contest.

The right tool for the right job.

[EDIT]
Oops, looks like I have to credit my good friend, Don, on the last sentence!

[EDIT 2]
BTW, the "clunk" of the DVX100's idle image stabilizer would scare most animals within a 50 yard radius away!

Chris Hurd · January 20th, 2004, 11:37 PM

For wildlife videography, it's the XL1S over the DVX100, hands down -- for one very important reason: the ability to use EOS 35mm lenses for *extreme* telephoto shots. No other DV camcorder offers that particular feature. Within the realm of wildlife videography where the single most important aspect is getting the shot, all perceived benefits of the DVX (including 24p, built-in XLR, cine-gamma, scene files, newer technology, etc.) are outweighed by the ability of the XL1S plus a 400mm EOS lens with opyical image stabilization to acheive a field of view equivalent to 2880mm in 35mm terms. For an example, see African Wildlife through an XL1 with EF Lens. Remember, you want the right tool for the right job. In this particular application, it's the XL1S. Hope this helps,

Eric Steiner · January 20th, 2004, 11:42 PM

Why do studio cameras cost so much?Does tape size matter?I guess I also want to be filming close things or at least not far off,kinda a secret....but what is the difference between a dvx100 and a dvx 100a.

How can I get schooled quick on cameras and video shooting.I can already film and burn to Dvd's but do not knoww any of the tricks like interpolating,which I just learned but do not really know what it means???

That is some wildlife....
But i would like to learn and I would be willing to travel to help out and be part of a team.I can film anywhere in any condition in any sport,or situation.I would like to fil a street bike movie within a year before I lose all that i have learned about what is really going on so anybody need a helping hand I am totally free.I just want to buy a camera that will be diverse and let me grow.What do you guys think?

January 20th, 2004, 01:54 PM	#1
Eric Steiner New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: ca. Posts: 14	Need Help?? DV100 or xl1s I want to film out doors too but want to know why I should buy the Pan dv100 in stead of the canon xl1s. How is Abesofmaine?Anybody got any feedback?

January 20th, 2004, 06:35 PM	#2
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	And you've read the pages and pages and pages of material regarding both of these camcorders, and know, more specifically than "outdoors", what kind of shooting you want to do? Do you want to shoot in 24 or 30 fps? Do you want to be able to change lenses, and are you prepared to pay a whole lot, over time, for this feature? How important is native XLR sound to you? __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

January 20th, 2004, 06:47 PM	#3
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Please tell us exactly what you want to shoot with it, and for what purposes, and we will be able to give you more feedback. Abe's Of Main is considered a shadier place by some, but check the seller ratings website that Frank Granovski posted for you earlier. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

January 20th, 2004, 07:17 PM	#4
Eric Steiner New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: ca. Posts: 14	Thanks Most importantly I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot.I am not real clear on the 24 versus th 30 or 29.97,I have never seen two videos side by side.Is there a dramatic difference?And yes I would like the ability to interchange lenses.Wouldn't anyone?I also want to shoot upclose.Which camera is better and why?

January 20th, 2004, 07:30 PM	#5
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	http://www.resellerratings.com __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

January 20th, 2004, 07:52 PM	#6
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Re: Thanks >>>>>>Most importantly I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot. - Then get the XL1S and take advantage of the EF Adaptor. >>>>>>I am not real clear on the 24 versus th 30 or 29.97,I have never seen two videos side by side. - Chances are you don't have a strong need for 24P then. You stated you want to shoot nature wildlife. You will need an interchangeable lens. The DVX100 does not offer interchangeable lens capability. It wouldn't make sense for you to give up interchangeable lenses just to have 24P capture. Then you would never quite be able to grab tight shots on any wildlife, as you would be somewhat limited with a fixed wider-than-average 10X lens. Sure, you could install a Century Optics 2X Teleconvertor adaptor in front of the DVX100 to get 20X, but it still won't produce the extreme close-ups that the Canon Xl1S, EF adaptor and Canon EOS IS lens will. For example, using the EF adaptor with a Canon EOS IS lens will magnify the effective focal length of that lens by a factor of 7.2X - that is great news for nature wildlife photogs. You could then use a lens such as the Canon EF 28 - 135 mm f/3.5 - 5.6 IS US? lens - that would give you a 201.6mm - 972mm zoom lens WITH Image Stabilization. That lens can be purchased for just a little over $400. That's a highly affordable solution for getting a nice, tight shot for nature & wildlife shooters. >>>>>>Is there a dramatic difference? - You could say so. Is it going to make or break your nature wildflife footage? Nope. Well, it would if you decided to opt out on interchangeable lens capability just for 24P. >>>>>>And yes I would like the ability to interchange lenses. - Your opening statement: "I want to be able o shoot far away and have great clarity.Wild life has been something I always have wanted to shoot" pretty much dictated that you would greatly benefit from the ability to use interchangeable lenses. Especially the EF adaptor and a good Canon EOS IS lens. >>>>>>Wouldn't anyone? - You would think so, but not necessarily. Some people get along fine for what they are doing with a fixed auto servo lens. I like the ability to use what I want in front of the image plane. It means I have a lot of control straight to where the capture is made. >>>>>>I also want to shoot upclose. - Then get the Canon 16X Manual/ Servo lens and take advantage of the Macro feature. 'Nuff said? >>>>>>Which camera is better and why? - Neither camera is better than the other. It comes down to which camera has the features that you need for your particular application. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

January 20th, 2004, 08:04 PM	#7
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	See, that's the thing. Neither is better, despite what some are going to want to tell you. Regarding interchangeability of lenses, there are some folks who shoot fast breaking events, and want a simple, high quality package without needing to lug around bags and bags of stuff. The ability of Int. lenses might be lost on them. That's why we ask about want you want. We don't know you. That said, please to meet you, Eric. You probably want something with a long zoom, for wildlife shoots. There are zoom adaptors for most cams, but they're often limited in what they can do, and expensive for what they are, IMO, although I'm by no means against using them. It sounds like the XL1S might be the most flexible tool for your stated applications. Also, the XL1S offers a Movie Mode, or something like that, which is a fake 30fps feature, very popular with many owners of this cam, though it does mean a loss of resolution. I would read up on this cam, and it's lens options, but also the better zoom adaptors available, particularly the ones for the DVX100. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

January 20th, 2004, 08:05 PM	#8
Eric Steiner New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: ca. Posts: 14	Thank you Thanks Very much for the input.One more question,why would you want to buy a dv100 from panasonic??

January 20th, 2004, 08:38 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	It's a bit sharper, it has manual gamma controls, a very good picture, great audio, 24p, 30p (real progressive scan), etc. dv.com has a good review of the DVX100.

January 20th, 2004, 09:10 PM	#11
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	I would say, without having used the DVX100, that, other than having a fixed lens, the Panasonic is my preference in every other way. It's newer technology. It has native XLRs and is rated as having some of THE best dv cam audio circuitry around. It has a wealth of image controls that are available only on bigger cams. It's smaller. Which isn't to say that the XL1S doesn't produce pleasing images, but, for me, the above points take priority. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

January 20th, 2004, 09:23 PM	#12
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : I would say, without having used the DVX100, that, other than having a fixed lens, the Panasonic is my preference in every other way. It's newer technology. It has native XLRs and is rated as having some of THE best dv cam audio circuitry around. It has a wealth of image controls that are available only on bigger cams. It's smaller. Which isn't to say that the XL1S doesn't produce pleasing images, but, for me, the above points take priority. -->>> They may take priority for you, and that is totally cool. But let's stick to the topic of this thread and the original application which Eric stated which was shooting nature & wildlife... What are you going to do when you are out there in the fields or the woods and you see an animal 100 yards away - do you think you are going to be satisfied with a 10X fixed zoom lens? C'mon, all you are going to get is either a very wide shot where you can barely see the animal -or- your'e going to get a shot of nothing, because as you try to get closer to the animal to get a tighter shot, it is going to run away as you make your presence known. In that situation, your'e going to wish you had the XL1S, EF adaptor and EOS IS lens. I'm not debating whether or not the DVX100 produces a more resolute image or is better in low light or is newer technology. We all know that by now. Again, you use the right tool for the job. Heck, I shot my last short with the DVX100 and it looked sweet when it showed on a huge 20' projection screen in the Panasonic Theatre at the 2003 LA DV Film Festival. Was it a nature & wildlife piece? No,,, if it was, I would have used the Xl1S. Any wildlife photographer is going to seriously appreciate Image Stabilized extreme-telephoto lens capability, as that is going to make or break their shot more often than not - not 24P. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

January 20th, 2004, 11:09 PM	#13
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I've owned an XL1s (and and XL1 before that) for quite some time. I also own a DVX100 and, at this writing, have a DVX100A en route to me this week. I continue to be really impresed by how good the DVX100 really is, and by how much real value Panasonic has packed into this (relatively) spare-change-budget camera. This is a really remarkable camera, particularly for dramatic work. Very sharp and fast optics (whoever -really- makes them), etc. But. If I were doing wildlife work I wouldn't even dream of attempting it with the DVX100. It's fixed optical package just can't reach nearly far enough. It just wouldn't cut the mustard unless the "wildlife" was actually something that you could get quite close to shoot (ex: ant armies, the family cat, cows grazing, et.al.). The XL1s' ability to adapt to using Canon's enormous selection of outstanding EF lenses would be -the- key determining factor for its selection. This is one area where the XL1s leaves the DVX100 in the dust. Hands-down, no contest. The right tool for the right job. [EDIT] Oops, looks like I have to credit my good friend, Don, on the last sentence! [EDIT 2] BTW, the "clunk" of the DVX100's idle image stabilizer would scare most animals within a 50 yard radius away! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 20th, 2004, 11:37 PM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	For wildlife videography, it's the XL1S over the DVX100, hands down -- for one very important reason: the ability to use EOS 35mm lenses for extreme telephoto shots. No other DV camcorder offers that particular feature. Within the realm of wildlife videography where the single most important aspect is getting the shot, all perceived benefits of the DVX (including 24p, built-in XLR, cine-gamma, scene files, newer technology, etc.) are outweighed by the ability of the XL1S plus a 400mm EOS lens with opyical image stabilization to acheive a field of view equivalent to 2880mm in 35mm terms. For an example, see African Wildlife through an XL1 with EF Lens. Remember, you want the right tool for the right job. In this particular application, it's the XL1S. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 20th, 2004, 11:42 PM	#15
Eric Steiner New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: ca. Posts: 14	I hate to sound stupid Why do studio cameras cost so much?Does tape size matter?I guess I also want to be filming close things or at least not far off,kinda a secret....but what is the difference between a dvx100 and a dvx 100a. How can I get schooled quick on cameras and video shooting.I can already film and burn to Dvd's but do not knoww any of the tricks like interpolating,which I just learned but do not really know what it means??? That is some wildlife.... But i would like to learn and I would be willing to travel to help out and be part of a team.I can film anywhere in any condition in any sport,or situation.I would like to fil a street bike movie within a year before I lose all that i have learned about what is really going on so anybody need a helping hand I am totally free.I just want to buy a camera that will be diverse and let me grow.What do you guys think?