The results are in...PC vs. MAC

Ken Tanaka · May 4th, 2002, 10:50 AM

Quick, hit the "Break" key!

Bill Ravens · May 4th, 2002, 01:53 PM

Martin_M, I suggest you take a look at Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video 3. There are some VERY pleasant surprises in this inexpensive program...and it's getting better.

Martin Munthe · May 5th, 2002, 10:54 AM

billravens,

Thanks for the tip! I'm really open to any new NLE solution. Vegas Video looks good...for DV. I hope they will be opening up to the professional market soon. DV makes it limited in serious post production. I need to work in other formats than DV (5:1 compression). I need 1:1. Some times I even need 1:1 HD over 250MB/sec RAID. DV is 6MB/sec. A Mac doing uncompressed SD/HD is something like 17K. Base price of the equivalent wintel HDBOXX system is something like 50K. And it can't do DV like FCP.

I think video scalability is THE thing of today. Locking systems down to only one video format is rediculous. If you are a developer and your not meeting the demands of video scalability you will be forced to drop prices. We are seeing this happening to a lot of high end developers like Maya and Avid. There is no way Avid can keep on selling us SD uncompressed systems for 60K when you can get it at better image quality with a Mac and 8 bit/10 bit card (Igniter or Voodoo) for under 8K with 24fps capability!

If you are never doing anything more than DV I think the Vegas Video system is OK. Even if you can't batch from EDL's. And can't off line film cutting with exports of Kodak Keycode lists. And it has no OMF support like FCP3 with Automatic Duck. But hey! The Vegas Video NLE is almost half the price of FCP! But the $400 your saving when not buying FCP will give you a lot more bang for the buck if you deside to spend it on FCP.

But keep in mind that DV is fine for photographic material but it sucks at any type of CG or broadcast graphics (sure you can do trashy skate video graphics but forget advanced compositing). The solution is to shoot DV but not edit DV unless it has no graphics or VFX or you are doing an offline.

I will keep hoping for a serious wintel threat to FCP. Competition is good.

John Locke · May 5th, 2002, 11:15 AM

Speed, schmeed.

Sitting back and taking in the spectacle of the OSX Cinema display desktop, graphic-rich dock, translucent windows, genie effect openings, and with Photoshop 7.0 and FCP 3.0 spread all over the screen, buttons glistening...it's no contest...

...Macs are sexier than PCs.

Steve Nunez · May 12th, 2002, 12:54 PM

This has got to be the most "Loaded" type of argument around (the internet is FULL of threads on this subject) ...

..as a long time pc user (ever since the Timex Sinclair- anyone remember those??) I've got to say most people who have used pc's and have tried Mac's often switch to Mac's as a result of the ease of use and just the fact that they seem to do exactly what they're aiming to do- the biggest complaint I have is that OS 9 has frozen a few times and it's terribly frustrating to have something freeze in the middle of a project...I'm willing to bet that ounce for ounce pc processores can outgun Mac processors but with the Windows OS and a thousand pc makers- there's always going to be issues with compatibility etc..the biggest Mac plus is the fact that when you buy a Mac you get the OS and software all made by the same company that makes the computer- if Microsoft ever decided to make a PC 100% on it's own- it would either be a dedicated powerhouse or a horrible wreck...I'm sure pc makers wouldn't want MS to start making pc's anyway....

...anyway- count me in on the Mac bandwagon- Final Cut Pro is just rocking the NLE industry and the fact that it's a Mac only app is just a plus- I wonder if Apple has ever considered making it available for pc's...would be interesting.

Vic Owen · May 12th, 2002, 02:53 PM

<<<--...anyway- count me in on the Mac bandwagon- Final Cut Pro is just rocking the NLE industry and the fact that it's a Mac only app is just a plus- I wonder if Apple has ever considered making it available for pc's...would be interesting. -->>>

I can only hope Apple doesn't -- look what happened to AOL after they opened the gates to non-MAC users!

Joe Redifer · May 12th, 2002, 04:47 PM

Yeah AOL became a mega powerhouse with tons of money! Quality be damned!

Interesting note about OS 9, Steve. Yeah I've seen it freeze on occasion. But never during video editing. Usually when it freezes it's when I'm putzing around with Internet Explorer. Using Netscape will often make Netscape crash but it won't freeze. I wish they'd update Opera to what it is on the PC (awesome browser).

May 4th, 2002, 10:50 AM	#16
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Quick, hit the "Break" key! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 5th, 2002, 10:54 AM	#18
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	billravens, Thanks for the tip! I'm really open to any new NLE solution. Vegas Video looks good...for DV. I hope they will be opening up to the professional market soon. DV makes it limited in serious post production. I need to work in other formats than DV (5:1 compression). I need 1:1. Some times I even need 1:1 HD over 250MB/sec RAID. DV is 6MB/sec. A Mac doing uncompressed SD/HD is something like 17K. Base price of the equivalent wintel HDBOXX system is something like 50K. And it can't do DV like FCP. I think video scalability is THE thing of today. Locking systems down to only one video format is rediculous. If you are a developer and your not meeting the demands of video scalability you will be forced to drop prices. We are seeing this happening to a lot of high end developers like Maya and Avid. There is no way Avid can keep on selling us SD uncompressed systems for 60K when you can get it at better image quality with a Mac and 8 bit/10 bit card (Igniter or Voodoo) for under 8K with 24fps capability! If you are never doing anything more than DV I think the Vegas Video system is OK. Even if you can't batch from EDL's. And can't off line film cutting with exports of Kodak Keycode lists. And it has no OMF support like FCP3 with Automatic Duck. But hey! The Vegas Video NLE is almost half the price of FCP! But the $400 your saving when not buying FCP will give you a lot more bang for the buck if you deside to spend it on FCP. But keep in mind that DV is fine for photographic material but it sucks at any type of CG or broadcast graphics (sure you can do trashy skate video graphics but forget advanced compositing). The solution is to shoot DV but not edit DV unless it has no graphics or VFX or you are doing an offline. I will keep hoping for a serious wintel threat to FCP. Competition is good. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

May 5th, 2002, 11:15 AM	#19
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Speed, schmeed. Sitting back and taking in the spectacle of the OSX Cinema display desktop, graphic-rich dock, translucent windows, genie effect openings, and with Photoshop 7.0 and FCP 3.0 spread all over the screen, buttons glistening...it's no contest... ...Macs are sexier than PCs. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

May 12th, 2002, 12:54 PM	#20
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	This has got to be the most "Loaded" type of argument around (the internet is FULL of threads on this subject) ... ..as a long time pc user (ever since the Timex Sinclair- anyone remember those??) I've got to say most people who have used pc's and have tried Mac's often switch to Mac's as a result of the ease of use and just the fact that they seem to do exactly what they're aiming to do- the biggest complaint I have is that OS 9 has frozen a few times and it's terribly frustrating to have something freeze in the middle of a project...I'm willing to bet that ounce for ounce pc processores can outgun Mac processors but with the Windows OS and a thousand pc makers- there's always going to be issues with compatibility etc..the biggest Mac plus is the fact that when you buy a Mac you get the OS and software all made by the same company that makes the computer- if Microsoft ever decided to make a PC 100% on it's own- it would either be a dedicated powerhouse or a horrible wreck...I'm sure pc makers wouldn't want MS to start making pc's anyway.... ...anyway- count me in on the Mac bandwagon- Final Cut Pro is just rocking the NLE industry and the fact that it's a Mac only app is just a plus- I wonder if Apple has ever considered making it available for pc's...would be interesting. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

May 12th, 2002, 02:53 PM	#21
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	<<<--...anyway- count me in on the Mac bandwagon- Final Cut Pro is just rocking the NLE industry and the fact that it's a Mac only app is just a plus- I wonder if Apple has ever considered making it available for pc's...would be interesting. -->>> I can only hope Apple doesn't -- look what happened to AOL after they opened the gates to non-MAC users! __________________ -- Vic Owen --

May 4th, 2002, 01:53 PM	#17
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Martin_M, I suggest you take a look at Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video 3. There are some VERY pleasant surprises in this inexpensive program...and it's getting better.

May 12th, 2002, 04:47 PM	#22
Joe Redifer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 290	Yeah AOL became a mega powerhouse with tons of money! Quality be damned! Interesting note about OS 9, Steve. Yeah I've seen it freeze on occasion. But never during video editing. Usually when it freezes it's when I'm putzing around with Internet Explorer. Using Netscape will often make Netscape crash but it won't freeze. I wish they'd update Opera to what it is on the PC (awesome browser).