Do we really need multi-coated filters? at DVinfo.net

Glenn Chan · November 2nd, 2003, 04:27 PM

Speaking of filters, most filters are about the same quality (Multi-coated versus single-coated makes very little difference) and cost <$1 to make.

EDIT: nevermind the above, see the link in my next message if you want to learn more about filters. The markup on filters seems to be insane.

<EDIT> I split this discussion on filters from an unrelated topic. That's the reason for the odd intro by Glenn.

Jeff Donald

Bryan Beasleigh · November 2nd, 2003, 05:10 PM

I'd disagree about the quality of filters being the same. If there is enough of a difference to notice ,I rate that as a big difference.

At the higher end i'd agree and i'd also agree that the better filters may be a tad overpriced.

There is one whole hurd of difference between my cheapo national brand uncoated UV's and my Hoya SMC UV's. Ditto on the polarizers. The filter frames are also of vastly different qualities.

The finish on the large format filters is also diverse.

You do get what you pay for. In any given group the level of acceptance will vary. What's good enough for some won't be for others.

Jeff Donald · November 2nd, 2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Speaking of filters, most filters are about the same quality (Multi-coated versus single-coated makes very little difference)

Sorry, but that's just not true. The difference between single and multi-coated filters is significant. Light transmission of MC filters is significantly greater. Flair is minimized to a greater degree by MC filters. B+W, Hoya, Zeiss and Tiffen all have information on their sites concerning MC vs. single coated and non-coated filters.

Glenn Chan · November 2nd, 2003, 07:11 PM

Wait, nevermind.

http://medfmt.8k.com/bronfilters.html#markup

Mike Rehmus · November 2nd, 2003, 07:25 PM

Brian is correct.

You can actually buy a UV filter that is made from green glass, not white glass. Why? It costs less.

Good filter glass is expensive. Good multi-coating is expensive but worth every penny. A good holder for the filter glass is expensive too. One wants the filter at right angles to the optical axis, both surfaces of the filter parallel, the threads made correctly and not of aluminum but brass, a nice knurl around the circumference so one can handle the filter.

Lots more than meets the eye.

Mike Rehmus · November 2nd, 2003, 07:27 PM

If the multi-coating story doesn't mean anything, order your next pair of glasses with a multi-coating. Incredible difference at night when one is driving! Made a believer out of me. Now if I could only get my windshield made that way.

Jeff Donald · November 2nd, 2003, 07:40 PM

Glenn, your article quotes a guy saying that in 1985 the cost of a Nikon filter was $1. I'm not disputing that filters are high profit items. However, your assertions that MC is of little value is false.

Frank Granovski · November 2nd, 2003, 07:57 PM

Actually, Nikon filters are very good, and I've heard and read more than once that Hoya has been making them for Nikon. I don't know if this is factual, though I do know that Hitachi makes Pana's DVD 1 chip cams and That Sony's wide and tele for the VX2000 are made by Kenko. :)

Isn't Heliopan, B&W, Schneider and perhaps Zeiss all the same company?

Bryan Beasleigh · November 2nd, 2003, 08:21 PM

Tiffen filters are made from green glass and they are supposed to be one of the better brands. Most premium filters are made from water white or shott glass.

I retired a few of my Tiffen UV's because I could see irregularities in their construction. Am I picky, darn right I am!

I've also read a few of the other articles on the site posted by Glenn. Some of the articles actually agree with the majority here and run counter to Glenns claim.

Glenn Chan · November 2nd, 2003, 09:50 PM

Regarding multi-coated versus single-coated filters, here's a webpage on it: http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/coatings.html.

Quote:

The advertisers and photo shop sales clerks would have you believe that multicoating of lenses is absolutely essential to good photography. Why, you should probably just toss out all those old single coated filters and buy brand new ones which are now available in a multi-coated version (at a high price). Please don't horrify them by pulling out your stock of uncoated filters!

Are they right? Are multicoated optics and filters essential for good photography? The short answer is NO!

There certainly is a difference between single-coated and uncoated filters. The website I linked to (http://medfmt.8k.com/bronfilters.html#brick) certainly says that there is a difference in the quality of filters.

Bryan Beasleigh · November 2nd, 2003, 10:30 PM

"Are they right? Are multicoated optics and filters essential for good photography? The short answer is NO!"

The long answer is if I can afford them I'll buy them. Glenn, I try things out for myself and only use other peoples opinion as a guide. Don't take everything you read as gospel. On the site that you gave a link for, there are conflicting opinions among the articles. It flies in the face of reason to put something cheap between a good lens and the subject.

I know that multicoated filters are great, I couldn't always afford them so I didn't have them then. Life still went on. Read the Leica article, it says the oposite of your last comments.

On the same train of thought you may wish to read more on coatings. It never hurts to read more opinions especially when they are published by leading optical manufacturers.

http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html
http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/filters/index.htm

So you're a neighbour to the south. I'm assuming you either work at or attend Ryerson from the addy on the one post.

Gints Klimanis · December 9th, 2003, 08:53 PM

>the threads made correctly and not of aluminum but brass,

Mike,

http://www.2filter.com/faq/facts.html lists on B+W filters
with rings made of brass. Do you use these or other filters?

Harry Settle · December 9th, 2003, 09:26 PM

Just check out the price and quality amongst all of the different binoculars and rifle scopes.

November 2nd, 2003, 07:25 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Brian is correct. You can actually buy a UV filter that is made from green glass, not white glass. Why? It costs less. Good filter glass is expensive. Good multi-coating is expensive but worth every penny. A good holder for the filter glass is expensive too. One wants the filter at right angles to the optical axis, both surfaces of the filter parallel, the threads made correctly and not of aluminum but brass, a nice knurl around the circumference so one can handle the filter. Lots more than meets the eye. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 2nd, 2003, 07:27 PM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	If the multi-coating story doesn't mean anything, order your next pair of glasses with a multi-coating. Incredible difference at night when one is driving! Made a believer out of me. Now if I could only get my windshield made that way. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 2nd, 2003, 07:40 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Glenn, your article quotes a guy saying that in 1985 the cost of a Nikon filter was $1. I'm not disputing that filters are high profit items. However, your assertions that MC is of little value is false. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 9th, 2003, 09:26 PM	#13
Harry Settle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 276	Just check out the price and quality amongst all of the different binoculars and rifle scopes. __________________ "DOH"!!!

November 2nd, 2003, 04:27 PM	#1
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Speaking of filters, most filters are about the same quality (Multi-coated versus single-coated makes very little difference) and cost <$1 to make. EDIT: nevermind the above, see the link in my next message if you want to learn more about filters. The markup on filters seems to be insane. <EDIT> I split this discussion on filters from an unrelated topic. That's the reason for the odd intro by Glenn. Jeff Donald

November 2nd, 2003, 05:10 PM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I'd disagree about the quality of filters being the same. If there is enough of a difference to notice ,I rate that as a big difference. At the higher end i'd agree and i'd also agree that the better filters may be a tad overpriced. There is one whole hurd of difference between my cheapo national brand uncoated UV's and my Hoya SMC UV's. Ditto on the polarizers. The filter frames are also of vastly different qualities. The finish on the large format filters is also diverse. You do get what you pay for. In any given group the level of acceptance will vary. What's good enough for some won't be for others.

November 2nd, 2003, 07:11 PM	#4
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Wait, nevermind. http://medfmt.8k.com/bronfilters.html#markup

November 2nd, 2003, 07:57 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Actually, Nikon filters are very good, and I've heard and read more than once that Hoya has been making them for Nikon. I don't know if this is factual, though I do know that Hitachi makes Pana's DVD 1 chip cams and That Sony's wide and tele for the VX2000 are made by Kenko. :) Isn't Heliopan, B&W, Schneider and perhaps Zeiss all the same company?

November 2nd, 2003, 08:21 PM	#9
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Tiffen filters are made from green glass and they are supposed to be one of the better brands. Most premium filters are made from water white or shott glass. I retired a few of my Tiffen UV's because I could see irregularities in their construction. Am I picky, darn right I am! I've also read a few of the other articles on the site posted by Glenn. Some of the articles actually agree with the majority here and run counter to Glenns claim.

November 2nd, 2003, 10:30 PM	#11
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	"Are they right? Are multicoated optics and filters essential for good photography? The short answer is NO!" The long answer is if I can afford them I'll buy them. Glenn, I try things out for myself and only use other peoples opinion as a guide. Don't take everything you read as gospel. On the site that you gave a link for, there are conflicting opinions among the articles. It flies in the face of reason to put something cheap between a good lens and the subject. I know that multicoated filters are great, I couldn't always afford them so I didn't have them then. Life still went on. Read the Leica article, it says the oposite of your last comments. On the same train of thought you may wish to read more on coatings. It never hurts to read more opinions especially when they are published by leading optical manufacturers. http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/filters/index.htm So you're a neighbour to the south. I'm assuming you either work at or attend Ryerson from the addy on the one post.

December 9th, 2003, 08:53 PM	#12
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	>the threads made correctly and not of aluminum but brass, Mike, http://www.2filter.com/faq/facts.html lists on B+W filters with rings made of brass. Do you use these or other filters?