cameras for fun at DVinfo.net

Joshua Cohen · October 21st, 2003, 10:27 AM

Hi there. I am already an avid user of the digital cameras, but am now looking to get something on the consumer side, so when I'm on vacation or with friends, I'm not carrying my xl1s with me, although that would still be pretty cool.

Without price being an option, I was looking between the sony trv22 or the elura 50. From what I've read about the two, the sony gets slightly better reviews, but they are both pretty much the same down the line.

I'm looking for the camera to do general shooting, low lighting situations can be alright. I believe that the sony does a better job in the low lighting than the canon. Also, from what I've read, the sony doesn't have any sort of wind shield or protection. I did plan on using this when skiing :) So any thoughts would be good for that, too.

I was hoping someone who has also done the kind of research that I'm doing, and someone who has actually used them, could offer there own personal opinion. As many of you know, reading "professional" opinions can only go so far.

I appeciate everyones help again.

Alex Taylor · October 21st, 2003, 10:35 AM

There's been quite a buzz around the Canon Optura Xi around here lately. That might be worth checking out (there are a few threads here and there dealing with this camera).

Don Donatello · October 21st, 2003, 12:35 PM

for FUN camera i use is the original Elura ( 4 years old) ..
i like it because it is small - though not as small as elura 50 ...
i take this on holidays and have it with me most of the time ..
IMO size does make a difference when you are having fun - and if you want FUN IMO the smaller camera with slightly less spec's is the way to go as it is NO fun trying to carry the larger camera around with you ..
i'm off to Cuba next month so do i take GL1 or Elura ? well for me there is no 2nd thoughts- ELURA !! fits in pocket ..it's holidays

it's not the best in low light , the mic is so-so ...

Joshua Cohen · October 21st, 2003, 12:54 PM

Appreciate all of the thoughts so far.

Matthew de Jongh · October 21st, 2003, 03:06 PM

i picked up a sony trv-19, pretty much on a whim, it was REALLY cheap and it is pretty small.

i hadn't realized how good the small ones had gotten until i played with a trv-19 at a clients office and i was impressed so when i saw one at tweeter and saw how cheap they were i picked one up.

matthew

Glenn Chan · October 21st, 2003, 05:41 PM

The TRV19 is the TRV22 with less features. I shot a few hours on the TRV22. The image quality should be good in most situations, but in the situations I shot in I noticed false colors in certain places. The lighting was stage lighting set up by a TV crew (sorry I have no idea what temperature lighting it was). False colors show up in most of my shots which is ok except when stuff is moving. In one shot it showed up in a guy's forehead which was REALLY annoying. You can kind of see it at http://www.foraychallenge.ca/dayone.html (speech by John Pollanyi). I don't think this problem happens outdoors. Some other brands exhibit this problem too.

Camcorderinfo.com sort of has a review for the TRV22. The TRV22 has pretty good low light for its price point. It's actually better than the higher models in its family in terms of low light. All of the images have the "Sony pop" look to them- contrasty and highly saturated to my eyes.

The mic is OK for a camcorder mic. I don't find the quality of camcorder mics acceptable but that's me (with the exception of the TRV120, but that's another story). On the clips at foraychallenge.ca (see link above) you can hear lots of sibiliance on "s"s. I'm not sure if this is a camcorder problem.

Easy of use: ok. I don't like the touch screen too much. It's hard to use its features while your other hand is holding the camera. The camera does very well with its auto-features. Manual features are not too practical to use while shooting. In stage lighting situations I find that Sony cameras tend to overexpose. You can kind of compensate with "spotlight" mode in the them but it doesn't go far enough. I don't know how other brands of cameras handle that kind of situation.

The resolution of the camera isn't as good as a prosumer 3CCD camera but should be good enough for your needs. I guestimate the lines of resolution to be about 400+ whereas a 3CCD camera would be 500+. When presented with a shot of a real-world situation I probably wouldn't notice the *resolution* difference right away.

Matthew de Jongh · October 21st, 2003, 07:05 PM

i think i checked out the trv-22 and the only real difference was the color viewfinder (i really liked the simple black and white) and it had a memory stick for the still camera (which i had no use for) and it was like $200 more

the trv-19 was under $500 which made it a neat toy!

plus its so small it fits in a jacket pocket, the other sony they had was even smaller but i like the shape of the trv-19 better.

matthew

Glenn Chan · October 21st, 2003, 08:37 PM

An extra feature that's actually useful is analog-digital passthrough. I believe the XL1s already has that feature so it would be redundant.

Shawn Mielke · October 22nd, 2003, 02:09 AM

I second the trv19 as Fun Cam. It does indeed have a b/w v/f, and no analog/digital passthrough. Very cuddly, I forget it's on my hand :=). Bought it as a deck for my PDX!0, but it I'm also enjoying it for black and white experimentation (if color is it's weakness, get rid of color! :) ). My latest fun effect with it is going to b/w and switching on nightshot in low light. Ghostly.

Joshua Cohen · October 22nd, 2003, 06:34 AM

This is great so far. I really appreciate all of your thoughts. I'm leaning now more towards the trv19. All I really need is a half decent camera to shoot. Nothing to special.

Thanks

Matthew de Jongh · October 22nd, 2003, 09:29 AM

i remember years ago my first digital camcorder, a sony trv-510 i was so happy to get a color viewfinder and then i found that i actually preferred the black and white.

what is digital/analog passthrough exactly?

i have a sony gv-d900 clamshell that i use for weird stuff, did something last week where i took a cheap ccd lipstick camera and taped it to the bottom of a small private plane and ran the wire into the cockpit and flew around western mass. and got the whole flight from takeoff roll to landing. it was kind of neat.

i need to get a better quality lipstick camera...

matthew

Lloyd Coleman · October 22nd, 2003, 10:06 AM

You might want to check out the new Canon Optura 300. I have not seen the camera, but understand that it has the same form factor as the Elura 50, but with improved optics, CCD, etc.

Shawn Mielke · October 22nd, 2003, 10:40 AM

Digital/analog passthroughs are a way to use the cam to digitize vhs recordings, for example.

Shawn Mielke · October 22nd, 2003, 10:47 AM

You're quite sure you don't wan't a lower end, somewhat more expensive 3ccd cam? I'd hate to be the guy stretched another's budget, but great color is great color. They aren't really less expensive than $1000, though. Oh yes, and someone has already mentioned the Xi.
Just wanted to run this by you.

J. Clayton Stansberry · October 22nd, 2003, 10:58 AM

What about the Pana DV953? I have heard some good things about this camera - never used it - but it would seem that the quaility would be better than the Canons, seeing as it has 3 CCD's vs. the Canon 1 CCD. And, the DV953 is about the same price as the Optura 300. Anyone know any more about this camera?

October 21st, 2003, 10:27 AM	#1
Joshua Cohen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roslyn Heights, NY Posts: 50	cameras for fun Hi there. I am already an avid user of the digital cameras, but am now looking to get something on the consumer side, so when I'm on vacation or with friends, I'm not carrying my xl1s with me, although that would still be pretty cool. Without price being an option, I was looking between the sony trv22 or the elura 50. From what I've read about the two, the sony gets slightly better reviews, but they are both pretty much the same down the line. I'm looking for the camera to do general shooting, low lighting situations can be alright. I believe that the sony does a better job in the low lighting than the canon. Also, from what I've read, the sony doesn't have any sort of wind shield or protection. I did plan on using this when skiing :) So any thoughts would be good for that, too. I was hoping someone who has also done the kind of research that I'm doing, and someone who has actually used them, could offer there own personal opinion. As many of you know, reading "professional" opinions can only go so far. I appeciate everyones help again. __________________ Ye who asks a question remains a fool for five minutes, ye who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

October 21st, 2003, 10:35 AM	#2
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	There's been quite a buzz around the Canon Optura Xi around here lately. That might be worth checking out (there are a few threads here and there dealing with this camera). __________________ alextaylor.org

October 21st, 2003, 12:54 PM	#4
Joshua Cohen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roslyn Heights, NY Posts: 50	Appreciate all of the thoughts so far. __________________ Ye who asks a question remains a fool for five minutes, ye who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

October 22nd, 2003, 02:09 AM	#9
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	I second the trv19 as Fun Cam. It does indeed have a b/w v/f, and no analog/digital passthrough. Very cuddly, I forget it's on my hand :=). Bought it as a deck for my PDX!0, but it I'm also enjoying it for black and white experimentation (if color is it's weakness, get rid of color! :) ). My latest fun effect with it is going to b/w and switching on nightshot in low light. Ghostly. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 22nd, 2003, 06:34 AM	#10
Joshua Cohen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roslyn Heights, NY Posts: 50	This is great so far. I really appreciate all of your thoughts. I'm leaning now more towards the trv19. All I really need is a half decent camera to shoot. Nothing to special. Thanks __________________ Ye who asks a question remains a fool for five minutes, ye who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

October 21st, 2003, 12:35 PM	#3
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	for FUN camera i use is the original Elura ( 4 years old) .. i like it because it is small - though not as small as elura 50 ... i take this on holidays and have it with me most of the time .. IMO size does make a difference when you are having fun - and if you want FUN IMO the smaller camera with slightly less spec's is the way to go as it is NO fun trying to carry the larger camera around with you .. i'm off to Cuba next month so do i take GL1 or Elura ? well for me there is no 2nd thoughts- ELURA !! fits in pocket ..it's holidays it's not the best in low light , the mic is so-so ...

October 21st, 2003, 03:06 PM	#5
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i picked up a sony trv-19, pretty much on a whim, it was REALLY cheap and it is pretty small. i hadn't realized how good the small ones had gotten until i played with a trv-19 at a clients office and i was impressed so when i saw one at tweeter and saw how cheap they were i picked one up. matthew

October 21st, 2003, 05:41 PM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	The TRV19 is the TRV22 with less features. I shot a few hours on the TRV22. The image quality should be good in most situations, but in the situations I shot in I noticed false colors in certain places. The lighting was stage lighting set up by a TV crew (sorry I have no idea what temperature lighting it was). False colors show up in most of my shots which is ok except when stuff is moving. In one shot it showed up in a guy's forehead which was REALLY annoying. You can kind of see it at http://www.foraychallenge.ca/dayone.html (speech by John Pollanyi). I don't think this problem happens outdoors. Some other brands exhibit this problem too. Camcorderinfo.com sort of has a review for the TRV22. The TRV22 has pretty good low light for its price point. It's actually better than the higher models in its family in terms of low light. All of the images have the "Sony pop" look to them- contrasty and highly saturated to my eyes. The mic is OK for a camcorder mic. I don't find the quality of camcorder mics acceptable but that's me (with the exception of the TRV120, but that's another story). On the clips at foraychallenge.ca (see link above) you can hear lots of sibiliance on "s"s. I'm not sure if this is a camcorder problem. Easy of use: ok. I don't like the touch screen too much. It's hard to use its features while your other hand is holding the camera. The camera does very well with its auto-features. Manual features are not too practical to use while shooting. In stage lighting situations I find that Sony cameras tend to overexpose. You can kind of compensate with "spotlight" mode in the them but it doesn't go far enough. I don't know how other brands of cameras handle that kind of situation. The resolution of the camera isn't as good as a prosumer 3CCD camera but should be good enough for your needs. I guestimate the lines of resolution to be about 400+ whereas a 3CCD camera would be 500+. When presented with a shot of a real-world situation I probably wouldn't notice the resolution difference right away.

October 21st, 2003, 07:05 PM	#7
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i think i checked out the trv-22 and the only real difference was the color viewfinder (i really liked the simple black and white) and it had a memory stick for the still camera (which i had no use for) and it was like $200 more the trv-19 was under $500 which made it a neat toy! plus its so small it fits in a jacket pocket, the other sony they had was even smaller but i like the shape of the trv-19 better. matthew

October 21st, 2003, 08:37 PM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	An extra feature that's actually useful is analog-digital passthrough. I believe the XL1s already has that feature so it would be redundant.

October 22nd, 2003, 09:29 AM	#11
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i remember years ago my first digital camcorder, a sony trv-510 i was so happy to get a color viewfinder and then i found that i actually preferred the black and white. what is digital/analog passthrough exactly? i have a sony gv-d900 clamshell that i use for weird stuff, did something last week where i took a cheap ccd lipstick camera and taped it to the bottom of a small private plane and ran the wire into the cockpit and flew around western mass. and got the whole flight from takeoff roll to landing. it was kind of neat. i need to get a better quality lipstick camera... matthew

October 22nd, 2003, 10:06 AM	#12
Lloyd Coleman Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 256	You might want to check out the new Canon Optura 300. I have not seen the camera, but understand that it has the same form factor as the Elura 50, but with improved optics, CCD, etc.

October 22nd, 2003, 10:40 AM	#13
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Digital/analog passthroughs are a way to use the cam to digitize vhs recordings, for example. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 22nd, 2003, 10:47 AM	#14
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	You're quite sure you don't wan't a lower end, somewhat more expensive 3ccd cam? I'd hate to be the guy stretched another's budget, but great color is great color. They aren't really less expensive than $1000, though. Oh yes, and someone has already mentioned the Xi. Just wanted to run this by you. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 22nd, 2003, 10:58 AM	#15
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	What about the Pana DV953? I have heard some good things about this camera - never used it - but it would seem that the quaility would be better than the Canons, seeing as it has 3 CCD's vs. the Canon 1 CCD. And, the DV953 is about the same price as the Optura 300. Anyone know any more about this camera? __________________ I understand everything about nothing.