Vx2000 or XL1 again... at DVinfo.net

Michael Chen · April 9th, 2002, 04:03 AM

I know this question has been posted a number of times.
But i still can't decide on which model to purchase. I've save up for quite sometime, and i'll be dried up once i purchase either model.

I was thinking of purchaxing the vx2000 at first, coz it's cheaper by around 500 US dollar, and it's newer.
But i've heard that the XL1 gives a more film look.

For me, the look is the prime concern. I don't mind paying more for the xl1 if it looks better. But I'm just afraid that it will be the other way round and i'd have pay the extra for nothing :(

Please help me decide as I am goin to put in my deposit in the weekend.

I am going to use this camcorders for films etc, and may be opening up a company, so i'd need advice as to which one will suit me more. I am talking bout the xl1, not the xl1s. thanks a lot for the reply. I really appreciate it.

Adrian Douglas · April 9th, 2002, 07:44 AM

Michael,

I'd be heading for the XL1s if look is your most important requirement. The VX2000 is a great camera but with the XL1s you start with much better glass than the VX2000 and that combined with excellent image control will give it the edge in my opinion.

I've got the original XL1 and while it's a great camera it was the first of a new model. With the XL1s, Canon improved on that model adding much asked for features, like black level control, colour saturation control, variable IRE level and sharpness control, which all go towards obtaining the image you want.

Michael Chen · April 9th, 2002, 07:57 AM

Thanks for the prompt reply. But i dun think that i can afford the XL1s. It costs around 650 US dollar more in my place compared to the XL1.

The most i could pay is for the XL1 only :(

I intend to use the camcorder for wedding shootin, and also to film some commercials plus films if I manage to start up my own one man co. lol.

So to get the best quality , will XL1 or vx2000 be more suitable for my case? I wont be able to upgrade for a while. So the best out of stock cams will be great.
My only concerns are, some has complained that the vx2000 has some sound problems, and it's a consumer cams unlike the xl1 which is a professional cam.

XL1 on the other hand, has a not so good stock lens. Hmm. Any more feedback will be great. And thanks again for replying.

Adrian Douglas · April 9th, 2002, 09:01 AM

I answered you audio question on your other post. As for your concerns about the stock XL lens they are unwarranted. the standard lens is prefect for about 90% of shooters. A large proportion of members here shoot wedding with that lens. I myself have been using it for 4 years. It's not as good as a Professional Manual Lens but it is still an exceptional piece of glass.

Both the XL1 and the VX2000 are considered 'Prosumer' cameras. People tend to think of the XL1 as a 'Pro' camera because of it's look.

If the XL1 is all you can afford at the moment, then go for that. If you are not happy with the lens then later on you can add one of the 3 available manual lenses. That is one of the major advantages of the XL1 over the VX2000, the fact that you can swap the lenses and build on the cameras modular design.

Hope this all halps your decision

John Klein · April 9th, 2002, 01:22 PM

If money mattered, I'd go for the vx2k. It's image compares pretty well to the 1S model.

But if you go for the xl1, I hear that the thing to do is send it to canon and they will update the software in the cam which will likely improve its performance.

There are no easy answers, but I am thinking of adding a cheaper 3 chip cam to my 1S setup. I still can't decide as there are a number of things I hate to lose from Canon, and still don't know if I'm going 900, vx2k, gydv300, the new pana.......................................or anudder Canon? I do think that any one of them will intercut (if shot well) all right with the 1S.

Good Luck

Michael Chen · April 10th, 2002, 04:13 AM

Thanks again for all the replies. They have provide quite some help in my decision.
I've been asking on which model is better all this while.
But i'd like to ask another question,
does both models give broadcasting quality footage?

Adrian Douglas · April 10th, 2002, 06:15 AM

The best answer is no. Neither camera gives you broadcast quality. Both give you braodcastable quality but it is not quite as good as the Beta SP image that is considered the broadcast standard.

With that in mind, use either camera with good lighting, framing camera movement, settings and filters and the only people that will know it's from a MiniDV camera are the people you give the tape to.

Michael Chen · April 11th, 2002, 04:29 AM

How bout the PD 150?
How does it fare compared to the xl1 and vx2000?

Not as much reviews has been done on this one compared to xl1 and vx2000.

Adrian Douglas · April 11th, 2002, 05:37 AM

The PD150 is the "Pro" version of the VX1000. The main differences are, it's black, uses DVCam instead of MiniDV, and has XLR audio connections.

DVCam uses MiniDV cassettes but has a different track pitch. It is Sony's Professional Format for digital cameras. There is no real difference in the image quality between the 2 cameras.

The audio circuit on the PD150 is a mono circuit, where as the VX2000 is stereo.

In my opinion if you prefer Sony over Canon, go with the VX2000 and save yourself some cash. If you find later you want to use "Pro" mics you can add a Beechtech or similar adapter. Lots of people use this method as you get the versitility of both stereo onboard mic and mono pro mics.

Michael Chen · April 11th, 2002, 06:52 AM

First of all i'd like to thank those who has answered my question, especially adrian.

You've been answering to my call almost immediately after my questions is posted. I should have pay u as a tutor :)

I think you've convinced me. I am now going in favour of the XL1s.
Adrian, do you know when was XL1s launched?

It came up after vx2000 was launched rite?

And one more thing, i am used to those cams with a lcd screen, and since the xl1s does not have one, will it be harder to film?

Adrian Douglas · April 11th, 2002, 07:34 AM

The XL1s was released about 12 months ago. If you are used to LCD screens you can buy a third party LCD monitors from one of the Watchdog sponsors Vari-Zoom for a good price. There is a 5.6inch version that is way better than any of the on-camera flip out models

ja135321 · April 11th, 2002, 07:05 PM

This is funny because now that 3 months have past and I have in my possession a XL1s. I think I would have preferred the VX2000. Why? Because I haven't used the VX2000 before and for all the money I shelled out for this Canon its worst than buyers remorse. Ok so heres the low down from someone who owns just the Canon XL1s. Here are my gripes.

1. The Zoom being heard in the recorded playback is ANNOYING! even after the $300.00 upgrade for isolator, minimount, and equalizer from lightwave. So then what? Take it to Canon? I did. They said that sound is normal under certain situations so there is nothing wrong with the camera. Ok so don't zoom when recording. I suppose I can live with that but then whats the purpose of buying this camera? I suppose if you buy this camera, you'll have to settle. Oh wait, the other option is buy a 1500.00 wireless mic system so its not connected to the camera.(even if the vx2000 audio quality isnt that good i bet you cant heard the freaking zoom on playback!!!!)

2. The focus with the automatic lense still sucks. So what now? Shell out another 1600 bucks for manual? or you buy the manual to begin with. So if you dont have the bucks to keep shelling out cash to fix problems that shouldnt be there then buy the Canon.

3. When I tried to playback a tape from a deck in my XL1s it would not work. I played it in a sony trv20 and it worked. I played it in the gv-1000 and it worked. I call Canon and tell them the problem I am having and they say its a problem with the tape and not the camera. I found Canon tech support to be full of idiots. Hey if you want something that doesnt work well with others buy a Canon. Look at me, I did.

John Threat · April 12th, 2002, 05:53 AM

Actually the manual lens could have solved two problems for you. Manual Zoom doesn't make any noise, and you have a better focus solution.

I find the mileage varies on the XL1S based on how you use and experiement with the camera many settings and functions.

Camera's are general not the best device for doing tape playback.

Jeff Donald · April 12th, 2002, 07:18 AM

If the zoom noise is that bad buy a better mic, rather than $1500 for a wireless system. Get a decent shotgun mic to better reject the zoom noise. I have found the stock mic is only OK at best. Jack of all trades master of none. Its and OK mic to put with a stock camera. Your needs require a better solution. The Lightwave accessories are still needed so that was a good investment. The Sony mic is also rather useless in my opinion, so you would have needed to upgrade there also.

The zoom takes getting used to. My production background is in broadcast where everything in manual focus and it took me a couple of months of almost daily shooting before a became really comfortable with the setup. I shot part of a feature last summer with a Sony 2000. If i had a choice of the two I would pefer the Canon to the Sony for the vast majority of my shooting. The Canon is not perfect but for what I do a much better choice than the 2000.

If you can provide more details on the tape playing issue more help may be forth coming (what are you trying to do, what hardware, software etc.).

Good luck

Jeff Donald

Michael Chen · April 14th, 2002, 01:39 AM

I have finally bought the XL1s :)

I tried out the frame movie mode. The video produced is kind of jerky/blur. I am not sure how to describe it. The movement is not that fluid i think.

Is this what it's suppose to do? Or have i done something wrong?
Which is the best shutter speed to shoot on to achieve a more filmy look?

Need some advice as to what to adjust to make the video the best looks. Thanks !

April 9th, 2002, 04:03 AM	#1
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Vx2000 or XL1 again... I know this question has been posted a number of times. But i still can't decide on which model to purchase. I've save up for quite sometime, and i'll be dried up once i purchase either model. I was thinking of purchaxing the vx2000 at first, coz it's cheaper by around 500 US dollar, and it's newer. But i've heard that the XL1 gives a more film look. For me, the look is the prime concern. I don't mind paying more for the xl1 if it looks better. But I'm just afraid that it will be the other way round and i'd have pay the extra for nothing :( Please help me decide as I am goin to put in my deposit in the weekend. I am going to use this camcorders for films etc, and may be opening up a company, so i'd need advice as to which one will suit me more. I am talking bout the xl1, not the xl1s. thanks a lot for the reply. I really appreciate it.

April 9th, 2002, 07:44 AM	#2
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Michael, I'd be heading for the XL1s if look is your most important requirement. The VX2000 is a great camera but with the XL1s you start with much better glass than the VX2000 and that combined with excellent image control will give it the edge in my opinion. I've got the original XL1 and while it's a great camera it was the first of a new model. With the XL1s, Canon improved on that model adding much asked for features, like black level control, colour saturation control, variable IRE level and sharpness control, which all go towards obtaining the image you want. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 9th, 2002, 09:01 AM	#4
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	I answered you audio question on your other post. As for your concerns about the stock XL lens they are unwarranted. the standard lens is prefect for about 90% of shooters. A large proportion of members here shoot wedding with that lens. I myself have been using it for 4 years. It's not as good as a Professional Manual Lens but it is still an exceptional piece of glass. Both the XL1 and the VX2000 are considered 'Prosumer' cameras. People tend to think of the XL1 as a 'Pro' camera because of it's look. If the XL1 is all you can afford at the moment, then go for that. If you are not happy with the lens then later on you can add one of the 3 available manual lenses. That is one of the major advantages of the XL1 over the VX2000, the fact that you can swap the lenses and build on the cameras modular design. Hope this all halps your decision __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 9th, 2002, 01:22 PM	#5
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	If money mattered, I'd go for the vx2k. It's image compares pretty well to the 1S model. But if you go for the xl1, I hear that the thing to do is send it to canon and they will update the software in the cam which will likely improve its performance. There are no easy answers, but I am thinking of adding a cheaper 3 chip cam to my 1S setup. I still can't decide as there are a number of things I hate to lose from Canon, and still don't know if I'm going 900, vx2k, gydv300, the new pana.......................................or anudder Canon? I do think that any one of them will intercut (if shot well) all right with the 1S. Good Luck __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < ><

April 10th, 2002, 06:15 AM	#7
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	The best answer is no. Neither camera gives you broadcast quality. Both give you braodcastable quality but it is not quite as good as the Beta SP image that is considered the broadcast standard. With that in mind, use either camera with good lighting, framing camera movement, settings and filters and the only people that will know it's from a MiniDV camera are the people you give the tape to. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 9th, 2002, 07:57 AM	#3
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Thanks for the prompt reply. But i dun think that i can afford the XL1s. It costs around 650 US dollar more in my place compared to the XL1. The most i could pay is for the XL1 only :( I intend to use the camcorder for wedding shootin, and also to film some commercials plus films if I manage to start up my own one man co. lol. So to get the best quality , will XL1 or vx2000 be more suitable for my case? I wont be able to upgrade for a while. So the best out of stock cams will be great. My only concerns are, some has complained that the vx2000 has some sound problems, and it's a consumer cams unlike the xl1 which is a professional cam. XL1 on the other hand, has a not so good stock lens. Hmm. Any more feedback will be great. And thanks again for replying.

April 10th, 2002, 04:13 AM	#6
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Thanks again for all the replies. They have provide quite some help in my decision. I've been asking on which model is better all this while. But i'd like to ask another question, does both models give broadcasting quality footage?

April 11th, 2002, 04:29 AM	#8
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	How bout the PD 150? How does it fare compared to the xl1 and vx2000? Not as much reviews has been done on this one compared to xl1 and vx2000.

April 11th, 2002, 05:37 AM	#9
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	The PD150 is the "Pro" version of the VX1000. The main differences are, it's black, uses DVCam instead of MiniDV, and has XLR audio connections. DVCam uses MiniDV cassettes but has a different track pitch. It is Sony's Professional Format for digital cameras. There is no real difference in the image quality between the 2 cameras. The audio circuit on the PD150 is a mono circuit, where as the VX2000 is stereo. In my opinion if you prefer Sony over Canon, go with the VX2000 and save yourself some cash. If you find later you want to use "Pro" mics you can add a Beechtech or similar adapter. Lots of people use this method as you get the versitility of both stereo onboard mic and mono pro mics. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 11th, 2002, 06:52 AM	#10
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	First of all i'd like to thank those who has answered my question, especially adrian. You've been answering to my call almost immediately after my questions is posted. I should have pay u as a tutor :) I think you've convinced me. I am now going in favour of the XL1s. Adrian, do you know when was XL1s launched? It came up after vx2000 was launched rite? And one more thing, i am used to those cams with a lcd screen, and since the xl1s does not have one, will it be harder to film?

April 11th, 2002, 07:34 AM	#11
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	The XL1s was released about 12 months ago. If you are used to LCD screens you can buy a third party LCD monitors from one of the Watchdog sponsors Vari-Zoom for a good price. There is a 5.6inch version that is way better than any of the on-camera flip out models __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 11th, 2002, 07:05 PM	#12
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	Which to buy This is funny because now that 3 months have past and I have in my possession a XL1s. I think I would have preferred the VX2000. Why? Because I haven't used the VX2000 before and for all the money I shelled out for this Canon its worst than buyers remorse. Ok so heres the low down from someone who owns just the Canon XL1s. Here are my gripes. 1. The Zoom being heard in the recorded playback is ANNOYING! even after the $300.00 upgrade for isolator, minimount, and equalizer from lightwave. So then what? Take it to Canon? I did. They said that sound is normal under certain situations so there is nothing wrong with the camera. Ok so don't zoom when recording. I suppose I can live with that but then whats the purpose of buying this camera? I suppose if you buy this camera, you'll have to settle. Oh wait, the other option is buy a 1500.00 wireless mic system so its not connected to the camera.(even if the vx2000 audio quality isnt that good i bet you cant heard the freaking zoom on playback!!!!) 2. The focus with the automatic lense still sucks. So what now? Shell out another 1600 bucks for manual? or you buy the manual to begin with. So if you dont have the bucks to keep shelling out cash to fix problems that shouldnt be there then buy the Canon. 3. When I tried to playback a tape from a deck in my XL1s it would not work. I played it in a sony trv20 and it worked. I played it in the gv-1000 and it worked. I call Canon and tell them the problem I am having and they say its a problem with the tape and not the camera. I found Canon tech support to be full of idiots. Hey if you want something that doesnt work well with others buy a Canon. Look at me, I did.

April 12th, 2002, 05:53 AM	#13
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	Actually the manual lens could have solved two problems for you. Manual Zoom doesn't make any noise, and you have a better focus solution. I find the mileage varies on the XL1S based on how you use and experiement with the camera many settings and functions. Camera's are general not the best device for doing tape playback.

April 12th, 2002, 07:18 AM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	If the zoom noise is that bad buy a better mic, rather than $1500 for a wireless system. Get a decent shotgun mic to better reject the zoom noise. I have found the stock mic is only OK at best. Jack of all trades master of none. Its and OK mic to put with a stock camera. Your needs require a better solution. The Lightwave accessories are still needed so that was a good investment. The Sony mic is also rather useless in my opinion, so you would have needed to upgrade there also. The zoom takes getting used to. My production background is in broadcast where everything in manual focus and it took me a couple of months of almost daily shooting before a became really comfortable with the setup. I shot part of a feature last summer with a Sony 2000. If i had a choice of the two I would pefer the Canon to the Sony for the vast majority of my shooting. The Canon is not perfect but for what I do a much better choice than the 2000. If you can provide more details on the tape playing issue more help may be forth coming (what are you trying to do, what hardware, software etc.). Good luck Jeff Donald

April 14th, 2002, 01:39 AM	#15
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	I have finally bought the XL1s :) I tried out the frame movie mode. The video produced is kind of jerky/blur. I am not sure how to describe it. The movement is not that fluid i think. Is this what it's suppose to do? Or have i done something wrong? Which is the best shutter speed to shoot on to achieve a more filmy look? Need some advice as to what to adjust to make the video the best looks. Thanks !