lines of resolution: DVCPro50 vs Beta or D2. at DVinfo.net

Alfred Tomaszewski · October 1st, 2003, 01:48 PM

Well MTV2 mater copies need to either be in beta or D2. First off what is D2? second how many lines of resolution does a beta tape hold? how many lines of resolution does a D2 tape hold? how many lines or resolution does a DVCPro50 tape hold?

Graeme Nattress · October 1st, 2003, 01:59 PM

D2 is an uncompressed composite digital video format.

By beta, do you mean old analogue BetaCam SP, or Digital BetaCam. BetaSP is not in the same league as the other formats you mention.

DVCPro50 is a compressed digital video format.

Standard definition Digital video formats don't really have a traditional "lines of resolution" rating - they're all 720 pixels across - that's standard 601 digital video for you. They differ in terms of colour resolution - DV is 4:1:1 (NTSC), DVCPro50 is 4:2:2, and D2 is composite, so it doesn't record the colour separately, so you can't say it's anything other than 4:

I found this website that lists a lot of formats for you though:

http://kensystem.com/kensys/vtr.htm

You might find it helpful!

Jeff Donald · October 1st, 2003, 02:19 PM

D2 is 8 bit composite digital video. The lines of resolution is related to the video bandwidth. The higher the video bandwidth the better the quality of the picture. D2 has a bandwidth of around 14MHz (if I remember correctly). Beta SP (analog) has a bandwidth of about 4MHz, and DVC, DVCPro, DVCAM have a bandwidth of 5.75MHz.

Graeme Nattress · October 1st, 2003, 02:36 PM

I somehow doubt that D2 has a 14mhz bandwidth - it's going to be pretty much the same as any other 601 digital format with 720 horizontal pixels.

Andre De Clercq · October 1st, 2003, 03:02 PM

D2 is a 4FSC (subcarrier locked) digitalisation concept for analog composite signals. It samples at 4x3.58=14.32 Mhz for NTSC (17.7 for PAL) and has the potential to digitiize a signal with a bandwidth up to 7.16 Mhz (Nyquist limit). Normally only standarized composite NTSC (or PAL) signals are being digitized so the final bandwidths resolution is the same as what NTSC (PAL) specifies.

Jeff Donald · October 1st, 2003, 03:03 PM

Your correct, I'm remembering the sampling frequency. The bandwidth is listed as between 6MHz and 6.5MHz. Signal to noise ratio is listed as 56db as compared to 54db for DVC, DVCPro, and DVCAM.

Alfred Tomaszewski · October 1st, 2003, 03:24 PM

all i am basically wondering is if i shot the video on a panasonic sdx900 (dvcpro50) and then output the master to that then but it on beta will it look like poop. or even if i output it to beta would it look like crap. we are going for MTV2 here.

David Mintzer · October 1st, 2003, 05:58 PM

I think that you will be very pleased with the quality you get---if you want a more definitive answer ask Jan Crittenden over at the 2pop SDX900 forum---She is very well versed and responds quickly. You might want to consider editing on FCP4 that supports DVCPRO/50. You will ned to rent the Panasonic deck (not sure the model number) with the firewire card option. Then you bring it into FCP, do your edits and go right back out---

I have seen the SDX900 in action and let me tell you--short of HD, it doesn't get any better. I think the 2Popers also have a link to a Volkswagen commerical shot with the camera--its amazing.

Glenn Chan · October 1st, 2003, 07:37 PM

Adam Wilt has a great FAQ on the DV formats (including DVCPRO50) and a comparison between that and other formats. Adam rates digibeta slightly over DVCPRO50 which is better than DV and betaSP. This is just comparing the formats- the cameras themselves make a huge difference. The SDX900 looks like a great camera (large CCDs, pro features, etc.) so I don't think that would be a problem.

Don Donatello · October 1st, 2003, 08:42 PM

the MAY 99 issue of DV magazine has a comparison ( with format spec's ) of 3/4 , hi8, betaSP, DVcam yc out, DVcam, DVCpro, Digital S ( D9), digiBeta, & 601DDR.

they probably still have the PDF file in their archives ..

Tape Formats Compared.
How do DV formats measure up with Beta SP and 601?
by Jim Freeley

October 1st, 2003, 01:48 PM	#1
Alfred Tomaszewski Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Shelby Twp., MI Posts: 112	lines of resolution: DVCPro50 vs Beta or D2. Well MTV2 mater copies need to either be in beta or D2. First off what is D2? second how many lines of resolution does a beta tape hold? how many lines of resolution does a D2 tape hold? how many lines or resolution does a DVCPro50 tape hold?

October 1st, 2003, 01:59 PM	#2
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	D2 is an uncompressed composite digital video format. By beta, do you mean old analogue BetaCam SP, or Digital BetaCam. BetaSP is not in the same league as the other formats you mention. DVCPro50 is a compressed digital video format. Standard definition Digital video formats don't really have a traditional "lines of resolution" rating - they're all 720 pixels across - that's standard 601 digital video for you. They differ in terms of colour resolution - DV is 4:1:1 (NTSC), DVCPro50 is 4:2:2, and D2 is composite, so it doesn't record the colour separately, so you can't say it's anything other than 4: I found this website that lists a lot of formats for you though: http://kensystem.com/kensys/vtr.htm You might find it helpful! __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

October 1st, 2003, 02:19 PM	#3
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	D2 is 8 bit composite digital video. The lines of resolution is related to the video bandwidth. The higher the video bandwidth the better the quality of the picture. D2 has a bandwidth of around 14MHz (if I remember correctly). Beta SP (analog) has a bandwidth of about 4MHz, and DVC, DVCPro, DVCAM have a bandwidth of 5.75MHz. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 1st, 2003, 02:36 PM	#4
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	I somehow doubt that D2 has a 14mhz bandwidth - it's going to be pretty much the same as any other 601 digital format with 720 horizontal pixels. __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

October 1st, 2003, 03:03 PM	#6
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Your correct, I'm remembering the sampling frequency. The bandwidth is listed as between 6MHz and 6.5MHz. Signal to noise ratio is listed as 56db as compared to 54db for DVC, DVCPro, and DVCAM. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 1st, 2003, 03:02 PM	#5
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	D2 is a 4FSC (subcarrier locked) digitalisation concept for analog composite signals. It samples at 4x3.58=14.32 Mhz for NTSC (17.7 for PAL) and has the potential to digitiize a signal with a bandwidth up to 7.16 Mhz (Nyquist limit). Normally only standarized composite NTSC (or PAL) signals are being digitized so the final bandwidths resolution is the same as what NTSC (PAL) specifies.

October 1st, 2003, 03:24 PM	#7
Alfred Tomaszewski Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Shelby Twp., MI Posts: 112	all i am basically wondering is if i shot the video on a panasonic sdx900 (dvcpro50) and then output the master to that then but it on beta will it look like poop. or even if i output it to beta would it look like crap. we are going for MTV2 here.

October 1st, 2003, 05:58 PM	#8
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	I think that you will be very pleased with the quality you get---if you want a more definitive answer ask Jan Crittenden over at the 2pop SDX900 forum---She is very well versed and responds quickly. You might want to consider editing on FCP4 that supports DVCPRO/50. You will ned to rent the Panasonic deck (not sure the model number) with the firewire card option. Then you bring it into FCP, do your edits and go right back out--- I have seen the SDX900 in action and let me tell you--short of HD, it doesn't get any better. I think the 2Popers also have a link to a Volkswagen commerical shot with the camera--its amazing.

October 1st, 2003, 07:37 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Adam Wilt has a great FAQ on the DV formats (including DVCPRO50) and a comparison between that and other formats. Adam rates digibeta slightly over DVCPRO50 which is better than DV and betaSP. This is just comparing the formats- the cameras themselves make a huge difference. The SDX900 looks like a great camera (large CCDs, pro features, etc.) so I don't think that would be a problem.

October 1st, 2003, 08:42 PM	#10
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	the MAY 99 issue of DV magazine has a comparison ( with format spec's ) of 3/4 , hi8, betaSP, DVcam yc out, DVcam, DVCpro, Digital S ( D9), digiBeta, & 601DDR. they probably still have the PDF file in their archives .. Tape Formats Compared. How do DV formats measure up with Beta SP and 601? by Jim Freeley