What do these cable TV specs mean? at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 13th, 2009, 04:09 PM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 3,014
What do these cable TV specs mean?

I got my first TV spot. The local cable (Comcast) technical specs have a couple things I am not sure of:

"... minimum of 30 seconds 75% SMPTE color bars shall preceed ...":
Is this the FCP color bars at 75% opacity?

"A minimum of 1 second of video black shall precede and follow each spot/show. And a minimum of 6 seconds of stable video shall precede the spot/show."
I don't get the 6 seconds of stable video. The specs ask for 30 seconds of bars, a slate and a 1 second preroll. I'm guessing they don't count the bars and want the slate to be up for at least 6 seconds?

"Video levels shall be in compliance with test signals recorded at head of each tape, when corrected to those levels, content peaks shall not exceed 100 IRE nor black levels dip below 7.5 IRE"
I applied the FCP broadcast Safe filter making sure the "Clamp Above" setting was 100 for both Luminance and Saturation but I see nothing for black levels. Not sure if I need to do anything to ensure compliance with the bars at the head.

Any advice is appreciated. TIA
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 11:26 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Miami, FL USA
Posts: 1,505
Here's some info that may help: SMPTE color bars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the stable video thing has me scratching my head, too

/Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team
Battle Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan View Post
the stable video thing has me scratching my head, too
I'm guessing that is a holdover from the analog and 3/4" video days when preroll was 5 seconds and people believed that an empty input was the same as black.
__________________
Andy Tejral
Railroad Videographer
Andy Tejral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:06 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
"Video levels shall be in compliance with test signals recorded at head of each tape, when corrected to those levels, content peaks shall not exceed 100 IRE nor black levels dip below 7.5 IRE"
I applied the FCP broadcast Safe filter making sure the "Clamp Above" setting was 100 for both Luminance and Saturation but I see nothing for black levels. Not sure if I need to do anything to ensure compliance with the bars at the head.
FCP Broadcast Safe DOES NOT correct for blacks below 7.5 IRE AFAIK. Bring up the video scope from the Tools menu in FCP and ensure that your black levels don't dip below 7.5IRE in your PROGRAM MATERIAL, not your bars. Bars HAVE a value of less than 7.5 IRE in the pluge.

ADDENDUM: I don't believe FCP Broadcast Safe addresses out of gamut colour completely either. You SHOULD watch the entire program with the Waveform and Vectorscope tools open and watch for IRE above 100 or below 7.5 on the waveform and any colour component that "overshoots" the "target box".
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:13 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
BTW, 75% bars are the ones that have the separate boxes and pluge at the bottom, NOT the straight bands of colour that prosumer cameras like the Sony PD150 and Canon XL1 generate.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tejral View Post
I'm guessing that is a holdover from the analog and 3/4" video days when preroll was 5 seconds and people believed that an empty input was the same as black.
EXACTLY. Black video is properly timed and continuous control track from your bars to your program material USING THE SAME SYNC. Lack of signal IS NOT timed, therefore NOT IN SYNC and can cause sync roll or tearing. The black or blue screen generated by a device not receiving a video signal is used solely to cover up the white noise that would normally occur on screen and again, has NO TIMING inherent in it.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 3,014
All these replies were helpful and saved me rework. I got the bars right and the 3-way color corrector let me fix the blacks in a snap. With the Waveform tool up, I realized my slugs were below 7.5 too. I'm ignoring the stable video part. Thanks again.
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
With the Waveform tool up, I realized my slugs were below 7.5 too.
COMMON mistake. Also, text in black is normally below 7.5IRE and SMALL text may not make a difference, LARGE main titles in black may be a no-no.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:48 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 3,014
Yes. The slate was out of spec too.
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2009, 11:22 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 352
Slight correction to your advice Shaun. On a waveform monitor digital video should fall between 0-100. 7.5 IRE is for analog NTSC video in the US only. Les, how are you delivering the spot? If it's staying digital (i.e. DVCAM via FW) then you don't have to worry about the black level changing. If you are delivering analog then you have to make sure that whatever device is doing the digital-to-analog conversion, such as a AJA or Blackmagic I/O card, is properly handling your black levels by adding setup so the analog output has a level of 7.5 and not 0.


-A
Andrew Kimery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 04:26 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wurzburg, Germany
Posts: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
BTW, 75% bars are the ones that have the separate boxes and pluge at the bottom, NOT the straight bands of colour that prosumer cameras like the Sony PD150 and Canon XL1 generate.
You mean the EBU color bars, but these are also 100/75, which means white luminance is 100%, while chrominance is 75%.
Normal color bars (EBU or SMPTE) from nle programs and cameras are always 100/75, and this is what they mean with 75% color bars.

The SMPTE are the ones FCP creates in play out mode, the ones with the extra color boxes. They are also 100/75 on the color bar part.

You can create 100/100 EBU color bars with FCP from the "other bars and signals" menu, but you will see immediately these look way oversaturated.
Heiko Saele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 3,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Kimery View Post
Les, how are you delivering the spot? If it's staying digital (i.e. DVCAM via FW) then you don't have to worry about the black level changing.
-A
Andrew: I delivered them digital (DV).

Heiko: My bars were FCP's "Bars and Tone" generators. Bummer. I guess I'll hear back from them if they won't accept them.

Thanks for the followups, at least I'll know what to do.

Last edited by Les Wilson; March 16th, 2009 at 02:38 PM. Reason: grammar
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2009, 09:00 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/USA
Posts: 2,515
I am delivering a weekly talk show to a cable station here in Atlanta, in the form of video burned to MPEG2\DVD.

Their specs also listed the 7.5IRE requirement.

When asked, they apologized and said it's been a while since they reviewed those specs and since the whole process is digital (their equipment is also all digital), I should disregard that.
__________________
Ervin Farkas
www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com
Ervin Farkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 12:31 AM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 28
Just out of curiosity, now that things are progressing toward HD, are these requirements still needed? Is digital delivery solving any of these?
Allen Ellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 04:57 AM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
No matter the format or delivery method... SD, HD, Tape, file transfer,
A broadcast commercial still needs to conform to a broadcast spec.
If you are providing broadcast content, it is your responsibility to make sure you know these specs, and that the content you provide meets these specs.

I can't tell you how many commercials during political season fail the QC because the production house doesn't know how to make a disclaimer 21 scan lines.
David W. Jones is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network