(Ask) Compare about video mixer?

[Sunarto Sosrosaputro]

Hi... Sorry if my english isn't good.

I want to ask, what is the difference between video mixer and video switcher?
I want to buy video mixer, but I confuse with the feature.
I have budget under $500. I need video mixer ( PAL ) with chroma key. What is your recommendation?
I hear the Videonics MX-1 has an annoying lag to the edits. Can you give me positive and negative point from video mixer based on your exprience?

Thanks

[Giroud Francois]

at that price, you will find nothing.
Obsolete (but darn good) Mx-1 and EDIROL are closer to $1000 than 500.
chroma key on these devices is possible, but far from perfect.
it is ok to check position on stage, or make cheap live effect (for webcast) , but it is pretty limited.
videonics had a MXpro vih DV firewire input, but price is nowhere near your budget.
Your best guess is to find a cheap 2nd hand MX1 for 300$ and see if it fit your needs.
I think India is PAL, so take care, most MX1 you will find on ebay are US model (NTSC) and there is no way to convert the device to operate with PAL.
check on German ebay, this is where you will find PAL MX1.
I never seen an MX1 on european ebay sold under $600
Sometimes videonics is rebranded ROWI in Germany, but it is the same device.
Currently there a 2 for sale, starting price $2

[Shaun Roemich]

As a Videonics owner I can state: Don't. Just don't. They are crap. I just replaced mine with an Edirol LVS400. The V-4 is closer to your budget.

The delay and image quality on the Videonics makes the device UNUSABLE. I owned the MX-Pro and literally threw it in the garbage just 2 weeks ago. Garbage GARBAGE GARBAGE.

[Giroud Francois]

i use a videonics MX1 with composite signal, and i should say that i am pretty happy.
if you just need simple mixer for low cost picture (video conferencing, web casting, presentation ) it is really a great simple tool (if you can get it for less than $500).
I even shoot some multicam performance for live mixing +recording on a DV deck, and it is still usable (composite video out of a good DV camera like the VX2000 is easy for long distance on coaxial cable).
if you are really serious about mixing video and quality is something important to you, you will not find anything under several thousand dollars anyway.
on the other hand if you need something cheap ,easy to use, quick to install, light to transport, the MX1 is very nice.

Usually video mixer and switcher are the same, except you can expect a video mixer to provide more features (like transition, keying) than just switching video.

[Sunarto Sosrosaputro]

Thanks for reply.

How about panasonic MX?
Where I can download the manual? So I can know which suitable with me.
If I don't need chroma key, can I get more cheap?

[Giroud Francois]

i was using the panasonic, but they are a bit obsolete too (if we speak about the affordable ones WJ-AVE5 , AVE7, MX10) . if you speak about the MX70, it is $4000.
they got nice signal quality, but still in the composite quality and features are pretty limited.
they are difficult to use, because many buttons.
the videonics MX1 has a lot of features (lots of transition, chroma key, y/c and composite output, multiscreen monitor output) and a 4 years child can use them.
i think the best for you is to find anyone and try...
today if i had to invest some money in such tool, i would choose an HD capable one (+$10.000).
If you do not need to work live, multicamera editing and chromakeying can easily be done with high quality on a mac or PC (Adobe with Premiere and Ultra is a good combination).
Ultra is able to make chroma key live.

[Sunarto Sosrosaputro]

I want to know the price this item, so I can throw away from my list
1. SIMA PRO MAGIC FX-5
2. SIMA PRO MAGIC FX-9
3. SIMA PRO MAGIC FX-10
4. Datavideo SE-500
5. JVC KM-1200 Pro
6. Panasonic WJ-MX20
7. Panasonic WJ-MX30
8. Panasonic WJ-MX50
9. Edirol LVS-400
10. Edirol V-1
11. Edirol V-4

And I want to know what is the difference feature between :
1. FX-5, FX-9, and FX-10
2. WJ-MX20, WJ-MX30, and WJ-MX50
3. LVS-400, V-1, and V-4

From your exprience, what the negative and positive point from item above?

Thanks

[Giroud Francois]

hey man, you give us homework ! google is your friend.....

[Sunarto Sosrosaputro]

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

hey man, you give us homework ! google is your friend.....

Sorry, i don't mean that.
I have been tried to search, but the price sometimes different far.
And I can't find the difference between edirol product.

one more, I want to apologize if you feel like that.

[Giroud Francois]

no offense, but your question is so specific, that i doubt somebody can get an answer without spending some time reading manual or googling.
And my first reaction in this case is "if i can do it, you can do it too....and while doing that you will learn a lot probably"

[Guy Cochran]

Awhile back I had the product manager from Edirol come into our studio to walk us through the key distinctions between the Edirol LVS-400 and the V-4. Really the V-4 is more for VJ's (Video DJ's) and the LVS-400 is more of a traditional, simplistic Mixer/Switcher for live events. The LVS-400 has big, easy to use buttons and BNC/S-Video on each channel. Here is a video that might help.

Edirol LVS 400 and V-4 demo

Also, the Edirol V-8 just started shipping a few weeks ago. If you need to add a few computer inputs, it's really cool. 8 channels!

[Chris Swanberg]

I will add, since Guy probably won't, that if you find a prooduct he carries, his advice and support on this forum makes him a logical choice for a place to buy it as he makes his living selling this stuff - but is always VERY straight up about his ideas and recommendations!

[Alex Pineyro]

I think I will never switch a live event again. Unless I needed to feed the output to a web stream or for live projection.

Since most NLEs can do multicam editing now, I rather switch in post.

Benefits:

Less equipment to haul.
No cabling
You can color correct a camera footage before editing
You can always go back to a wrong switch point and re-do it.

If I needed to switch more than two cameras, for under $500 your only bet is an used MX1 as previously stated.

If you have a powerfull pc with three firewire cards, you can use a program like this one:

AvTake CutFour, DV video mixing software, DV video mixer, DV switcher, AV / A/V mixing, titling, video streaming, Avi Capture, Firewire mixer, audio switch, HDV, HD, Cut4

altough there is a little delay involved in the process. (and it´s more expensive than a used MX1)

My two cents.

[Anthony Roberts]

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

As a Videonics owner I can state: Don't. Just don't. They are crap. I just replaced mine with an Edirol LVS400. The V-4 is closer to your budget.

The delay and image quality on the Videonics makes the device UNUSABLE. I owned the MX-Pro and literally threw it in the garbage just 2 weeks ago. Garbage GARBAGE GARBAGE.

You hated the Videonics device. Were you using it for a broadcast quality application? Do you think it would have sufficed for a web broadcast? Also, what sort of delay are you talking about?

I need a switcher that has a Firewire out. I'm pushing video to the Flash Media Encoder and streaming it on the web. So far the only switcher I can find that does this is SE-800DV from Datavideo Corporation. Videonics no longer exists, I guess it's now Focus Enhancements. They don't make switchers with standard Firewire outs anymore.

Does anyone out there do live web broadcasts? Any ideas for doing multiple camera shows?

Thanks,

Anthony

[Shaun Roemich]

The delay on the Videonics was up to half a second from the time I pressed the next source button OR the "take" button. That caused me all sorts of problems for rapid cut/beat cut stuff and some issues with cutting live cameras on a fast-paced convention floor. If your production is slow paced, it may be good enough for you but I was happy to see it gone.

As well, mine "crashed" hard after a power surge and took some time to come back up. Now I run EVERYTHING post power conditioner and UPS battery backup.

As well, the T-Bar is a toy, at least for those of us that have had the distinct pleasure of working on Grass Valley or Ross switchers. My new Edirol switcher feels GREAT in comparison.

Again, just my 2 cents. If you have the opportunity to try out a video mixer before buying, I would sincerely suggest doing just that.