DVCAM, DV and 35mm at DVinfo.net

Darrin Fletcher · August 3rd, 2003, 04:10 PM

I just finished shooting a film and the telecine process is shipping me my dailies on DVCAM.

A small group of filmmakers who are wanting to know how to edit, have gathered together and asked me to teach them for 3 day course on editing.

I've never made a DV project or even worked with DV as a medium so I really need some help here.

My question is this:

All I have, as far as the DV world goes, is a cannon xl1. Can I playback DVCAM recdorded media through an XL1?

Mike Rehmus · August 3rd, 2003, 04:21 PM

Unless the shop made the dupe onto mini-cassette, DV or DVCam, you cannot fit the cassette into the camera in the first place. I don't know if a XL1 will read DVCam. Probably but you should ask this question in the Canon forum. Perhaps the wrangler for this forum will move it there for you.

I'd have thought they would offer you VHS with a window burn with film footage.

Darrin Fletcher · August 3rd, 2003, 04:36 PM

Well, usually they would ship it to us in BetaSP format.

As it is, they are shipping it to us on the DV tape but its been recorded using DVCAM format.

Jeff Donald · August 3rd, 2003, 05:58 PM

It will not playback on an XL1 or XL1s, or any Canon DV camera (to the best of my knowledge. Prosumer Sony cameras, as well as some higher end Panasonic cameras and decks have that capability.
Get the tapes dubbed to mini DV or borrow a Sony for your workshop.

Glenn Chan · August 3rd, 2003, 06:07 PM

What NLE are you using?

Do you need to teach the filmmakers the art of editing or also the process of cutting their film?

Darrin Fletcher · August 3rd, 2003, 07:10 PM

We will be using Final Cut 4 because it's pretty much the only one that will cut a film and prepare it for the negative cutters.

I think I'll ask the telecine house to give them to me in an additional format... just plain old DV as well as the DVCAM

Chris Hurd · August 3rd, 2003, 07:51 PM

Be sure to specify the DV format (not DVCAM) on Mini-DV cassettes so that they'll play back on your XL1.

Glenn Chan · August 3rd, 2003, 08:42 PM

Why get (mini-)DVCAM in the first place? It's advantage over mini-DV is less chance of dropouts, maybe improved durability, and locked audio. None of these really help you. The video quality is the same. see Adam Wilt's DV FAQ for more info on the differences between DVCAM and mini-DV.

http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=34161&t=34161
for Final Cut Pro help, check out the LA FCP user group's forum. That link is to a thread discussing using cinema Tools with FCP.

Final Cut Pro 4 is still buggy right now, but most of the showstopping bugs (loss of sync on video output, not being able to use compressor) won't affect you. Some of the features in it could help you out a lot (like native 24p editing).

Darrin Fletcher · August 3rd, 2003, 10:15 PM

Well, the quality doesn't really concern me, as long at the timecode is the same as my film the it doesn't matter. We're dumping back to film so all I need is an acurate EDL list.

The timecode would remain the same, correct? I'll ask Laser Pacific if they can simply dump to DV... that will work, correct?

Mike Rehmus · August 3rd, 2003, 11:58 PM

If you mean you are going to edit your footage in video and then create an edit instruction list based on the film footage marks, FCP is not the only tool. Avid and several other editing systems offer that capability.

What I'm hearing here is that you really need to find someone who has done this before. You can get way down the Post path and find that the work cannot be transferred as you expect. Given the cost of 35mm shooting, the cost of an expert to at least consult with you seems almost necessary.

Jeff Donald · August 4th, 2003, 06:02 AM

Yes, some Avids can do what you propose (Symphony), but it's a lot more money. I looked into this several years ago and I could buy four FCP systems for the price of one Symphony. DV Xpress is not film capable. There is another Avid system that can be used with film editing, (Xpress Pro, not released yet, but due soon) but you need to purchase additional software. This thread may offer some additional insight into the Avid solution.

Mike Rehmus · August 4th, 2003, 10:55 AM

The price or rental of the Symphony will quickly disappear in the grand scheme of shooting a feature in 35mm.

I'm not claiming superiority for either product but I am pointing out that some professional advice would greatly speed their get-along.

Rob Belics · August 4th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Darrin,

Yes, ask Laser Pacific because they'll know. But your timecode should be fine and FCP can handle the sync problems as you know but I would let them know what you're doing in case there's a gotcha somewhere.

August 3rd, 2003, 04:10 PM	#1
Darrin Fletcher Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 4	DVCAM, DV and 35mm I just finished shooting a film and the telecine process is shipping me my dailies on DVCAM. A small group of filmmakers who are wanting to know how to edit, have gathered together and asked me to teach them for 3 day course on editing. I've never made a DV project or even worked with DV as a medium so I really need some help here. My question is this: All I have, as far as the DV world goes, is a cannon xl1. Can I playback DVCAM recdorded media through an XL1?

August 3rd, 2003, 04:21 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Unless the shop made the dupe onto mini-cassette, DV or DVCam, you cannot fit the cassette into the camera in the first place. I don't know if a XL1 will read DVCam. Probably but you should ask this question in the Canon forum. Perhaps the wrangler for this forum will move it there for you. I'd have thought they would offer you VHS with a window burn with film footage. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 3rd, 2003, 05:58 PM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It will not playback on an XL1 or XL1s, or any Canon DV camera (to the best of my knowledge. Prosumer Sony cameras, as well as some higher end Panasonic cameras and decks have that capability. Get the tapes dubbed to mini DV or borrow a Sony for your workshop. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 3rd, 2003, 07:51 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Be sure to specify the DV format (not DVCAM) on Mini-DV cassettes so that they'll play back on your XL1. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 3rd, 2003, 11:58 PM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	If you mean you are going to edit your footage in video and then create an edit instruction list based on the film footage marks, FCP is not the only tool. Avid and several other editing systems offer that capability. What I'm hearing here is that you really need to find someone who has done this before. You can get way down the Post path and find that the work cannot be transferred as you expect. Given the cost of 35mm shooting, the cost of an expert to at least consult with you seems almost necessary. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 3rd, 2003, 04:36 PM	#3
Darrin Fletcher Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 4	Well, usually they would ship it to us in BetaSP format. As it is, they are shipping it to us on the DV tape but its been recorded using DVCAM format.

August 3rd, 2003, 06:07 PM	#5
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	What NLE are you using? Do you need to teach the filmmakers the art of editing or also the process of cutting their film?

August 3rd, 2003, 07:10 PM	#6
Darrin Fletcher Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 4	We will be using Final Cut 4 because it's pretty much the only one that will cut a film and prepare it for the negative cutters. I think I'll ask the telecine house to give them to me in an additional format... just plain old DV as well as the DVCAM

August 3rd, 2003, 08:42 PM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Why get (mini-)DVCAM in the first place? It's advantage over mini-DV is less chance of dropouts, maybe improved durability, and locked audio. None of these really help you. The video quality is the same. see Adam Wilt's DV FAQ for more info on the differences between DVCAM and mini-DV. http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=34161&t=34161 for Final Cut Pro help, check out the LA FCP user group's forum. That link is to a thread discussing using cinema Tools with FCP. Final Cut Pro 4 is still buggy right now, but most of the showstopping bugs (loss of sync on video output, not being able to use compressor) won't affect you. Some of the features in it could help you out a lot (like native 24p editing).

August 3rd, 2003, 10:15 PM	#9
Darrin Fletcher Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 4	Well, the quality doesn't really concern me, as long at the timecode is the same as my film the it doesn't matter. We're dumping back to film so all I need is an acurate EDL list. The timecode would remain the same, correct? I'll ask Laser Pacific if they can simply dump to DV... that will work, correct?

August 4th, 2003, 06:02 AM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yes, some Avids can do what you propose (Symphony), but it's a lot more money. I looked into this several years ago and I could buy four FCP systems for the price of one Symphony. DV Xpress is not film capable. There is another Avid system that can be used with film editing, (Xpress Pro, not released yet, but due soon) but you need to purchase additional software. This thread may offer some additional insight into the Avid solution. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 4th, 2003, 10:55 AM	#12
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The price or rental of the Symphony will quickly disappear in the grand scheme of shooting a feature in 35mm. I'm not claiming superiority for either product but I am pointing out that some professional advice would greatly speed their get-along. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 4th, 2003, 11:17 AM	#13
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Darrin, Yes, ask Laser Pacific because they'll know. But your timecode should be fine and FCP can handle the sync problems as you know but I would let them know what you're doing in case there's a gotcha somewhere.