fight scene tips please at DVinfo.net

Hal Huntsman · August 1st, 2003, 04:04 AM

I'm thinking about shooting a movie that includes a few fight scenes. I've never really done this before and I definately want to make it look realistic. Does anyone have any basic tips that I should keep in mind while setting up these shots?

Thanks

Hal Huntsman

Andres Lucero · August 1st, 2003, 08:00 AM

1.) Protect your lens. :)

Bill Pryor · August 1st, 2003, 09:18 AM

Hire only actors who have been trained in stage fighting.

John Threat · August 1st, 2003, 09:18 AM

1. Cover the action in a wide master shot.

2. Break the action up into smaller chucks and shoot medium and closeup shots of specific action.

3. Go Handheld and get tight close ups (either from far away and zooming in (perferrable) or coming in phsyically close (watch the camera as was said before) of different action and struggling. This will intercut with the other footage nicely where a transition between action might not be tight and also give you a nice feeling of being in the intense action.

Dylan Couper · August 1st, 2003, 10:32 AM

I spent 11 hours yesterday shooting two fight scenes for our Lady X movie, and have shot several martial arts projects with master level martial artists.

A couple of tips
1) keep the action simple. The more complexe it is, the more it looks faked.
2) Keep the fight standing up, stuff on the ground rarely looks good.
3) Align your cameras so you see everything but the point where the punch or kick impacts.
4) Keep lots of space between your actors. The camera can't tell the difference if you follow #3.
5) The reaction is more important than the action. It's the flinching of the person that gets punched that makes a fight look good, not the punch. Have your actors overreact to getting hit, it'll make it more convincing.

As far as shots go, John Threat covered that perfectly.

John Locke · August 1st, 2003, 10:34 AM

Go to Quicktime and watch the "Kill Bill" trailer for inspiration.

Frank Ladner · August 1st, 2003, 11:04 AM

I have heard of some people removing frames, say, right before
a punch is delivered, giving it a quick impact.

Obviously this wouldn't do if the camera was moving, though,
because you'd get an undesirable jerk in the entire footage.

I have done some tests with footage using Twixtor in After Effects, with the Motion Blur setting bumped up in Twixtor and the speed being increased considerably, and it looked realistic.
(IE, it doesn't just look like one of those old black and white
films where all the motion was fast. (due to the framerate, I suppose))

It won't work if you go overboard, though, and on small increases in speed, you may be able to use AE's native Frame Blending.

Let me know if this doesn't make sense.

,Frank

Frank Ladner · August 1st, 2003, 11:09 AM

Another trick that I have heard of is to have the actors fight slowly, and then to speed the footage up.

I'll bet you can get some nifty shots, especially on closeups where you can actually have the hand make contact with the other person.

You obviously couldn't use this for the entire sequence though. Imagine telling the actor to 'fall slowly'.

Anyhow, just throwing another idea out there.

,Frank

Frank Granovski · August 1st, 2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

fight scene tips please

Keep in simple and keep it realistic. Perhaps use a 1/30th or 1/15th shutter like they used in Gladiator. :)

Keith Loh · August 1st, 2003, 11:29 AM

On the speeding up stuff. In Hong Kong this was fairly common so that the actors and stunt actors became very well schooled in fighting slow which actually is quite a lot of work. Imagine keeping slowly making a circle kick, holding it for three times as long as you would normally.

John Threat · August 1st, 2003, 12:16 PM

Actually, I would probably shoot the stuff at 1/1000 shutter speed.

Glenn Chan · August 1st, 2003, 01:41 PM

Jeff Centauri (professional stunt man) has an excellent article on this sort of thing. It's very important to practice a lot!

http://www.a55films.com/productions/...owtofight.html

If you've seen Walker Texas Ranger, you'll know that the fight scenes SUCK even though Chuck Norris is very good at martial arts. He isn't very good at movie fighting.

Hal Huntsman · August 2nd, 2003, 05:14 AM

Thanks for all your advice and the links. It has been very helpful. I want to do a convincing job and I have also noted that some excellent martial artists have awful movie fight scenes.

I have a Canon XL1s and I was wondering why there was a suggestion of shooting 1/30, 1/15, or 1/1000 shutter.
How would this be preferable to shooting at 1/60? Also, would you recommend shooting in frame mode? and using the 16:9 mode?

Thanks,

Hal

Glenn Chan · August 2nd, 2003, 09:13 PM

Shooting with a high shutter speed will mean less motion blur, and vice versa. A high shutter speed could be advantageous for certain special effects.

Frame mode will give you better resolution and crappier looking motion. It might also affect the sensitivity of your camera. Shooting with frame mode could be good if you are planning to make DVDs (so you don't have to de-interlace when you encode).

16:9 mode is if you want to do a film transfer or if you want that widescreen look or if you want to shoot for HDTV. I would stay away from it.

Frank Granovski · August 2nd, 2003, 09:44 PM

Do you recall those neat fight scenes in the movie, "Gladiator?" They were done with low shutter speeds of 1/30 and 1/15.

August 1st, 2003, 04:04 AM	#1
Hal Huntsman New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 19	fight scene tips please I'm thinking about shooting a movie that includes a few fight scenes. I've never really done this before and I definately want to make it look realistic. Does anyone have any basic tips that I should keep in mind while setting up these shots? Thanks Hal Huntsman

August 1st, 2003, 10:32 AM	#5
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I spent 11 hours yesterday shooting two fight scenes for our Lady X movie, and have shot several martial arts projects with master level martial artists. A couple of tips 1) keep the action simple. The more complexe it is, the more it looks faked. 2) Keep the fight standing up, stuff on the ground rarely looks good. 3) Align your cameras so you see everything but the point where the punch or kick impacts. 4) Keep lots of space between your actors. The camera can't tell the difference if you follow #3. 5) The reaction is more important than the action. It's the flinching of the person that gets punched that makes a fight look good, not the punch. Have your actors overreact to getting hit, it'll make it more convincing. As far as shots go, John Threat covered that perfectly. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 1st, 2003, 10:34 AM	#6
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Go to Quicktime and watch the "Kill Bill" trailer for inspiration. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

August 1st, 2003, 11:04 AM	#7
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	speeding footage I have heard of some people removing frames, say, right before a punch is delivered, giving it a quick impact. Obviously this wouldn't do if the camera was moving, though, because you'd get an undesirable jerk in the entire footage. I have done some tests with footage using Twixtor in After Effects, with the Motion Blur setting bumped up in Twixtor and the speed being increased considerably, and it looked realistic. (IE, it doesn't just look like one of those old black and white films where all the motion was fast. (due to the framerate, I suppose)) It won't work if you go overboard, though, and on small increases in speed, you may be able to use AE's native Frame Blending. Let me know if this doesn't make sense. ,Frank

August 1st, 2003, 11:09 AM	#8
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	...also Another trick that I have heard of is to have the actors fight slowly, and then to speed the footage up. I'll bet you can get some nifty shots, especially on closeups where you can actually have the hand make contact with the other person. You obviously couldn't use this for the entire sequence though. Imagine telling the actor to 'fall slowly'. Anyhow, just throwing another idea out there. ,Frank

August 1st, 2003, 08:00 AM	#2
Andres Lucero Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 75	1.) Protect your lens. :)

August 1st, 2003, 09:18 AM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Hire only actors who have been trained in stage fighting.

August 1st, 2003, 09:18 AM	#4
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	1. Cover the action in a wide master shot. 2. Break the action up into smaller chucks and shoot medium and closeup shots of specific action. 3. Go Handheld and get tight close ups (either from far away and zooming in (perferrable) or coming in phsyically close (watch the camera as was said before) of different action and struggling. This will intercut with the other footage nicely where a transition between action might not be tight and also give you a nice feeling of being in the intense action.

August 1st, 2003, 11:29 AM	#10
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	On the speeding up stuff. In Hong Kong this was fairly common so that the actors and stunt actors became very well schooled in fighting slow which actually is quite a lot of work. Imagine keeping slowly making a circle kick, holding it for three times as long as you would normally. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

August 1st, 2003, 12:16 PM	#11
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	Actually, I would probably shoot the stuff at 1/1000 shutter speed.

August 1st, 2003, 01:41 PM	#12
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Jeff Centauri (professional stunt man) has an excellent article on this sort of thing. It's very important to practice a lot! http://www.a55films.com/productions/...owtofight.html If you've seen Walker Texas Ranger, you'll know that the fight scenes SUCK even though Chuck Norris is very good at martial arts. He isn't very good at movie fighting.

August 2nd, 2003, 05:14 AM	#13
Hal Huntsman New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 19	Thanks for all your advice and the links. It has been very helpful. I want to do a convincing job and I have also noted that some excellent martial artists have awful movie fight scenes. I have a Canon XL1s and I was wondering why there was a suggestion of shooting 1/30, 1/15, or 1/1000 shutter. How would this be preferable to shooting at 1/60? Also, would you recommend shooting in frame mode? and using the 16:9 mode? Thanks, Hal

August 2nd, 2003, 09:13 PM	#14
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Shooting with a high shutter speed will mean less motion blur, and vice versa. A high shutter speed could be advantageous for certain special effects. Frame mode will give you better resolution and crappier looking motion. It might also affect the sensitivity of your camera. Shooting with frame mode could be good if you are planning to make DVDs (so you don't have to de-interlace when you encode). 16:9 mode is if you want to do a film transfer or if you want that widescreen look or if you want to shoot for HDTV. I would stay away from it.

August 2nd, 2003, 09:44 PM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Do you recall those neat fight scenes in the movie, "Gladiator?" They were done with low shutter speeds of 1/30 and 1/15.