fight scene tips please

Hal Huntsman · August 3rd, 2003, 07:51 AM

Thanks again for all your advice. I appreciate it. I'll get busy and do some test shots and see what will work for me.

Muchas gracias

Hal

Brian Huey · August 5th, 2003, 02:20 AM

The Gladiator fight scenes were shot with a really fast shutter (the +1/1000 speeds on an XL1) NOT a slow shudder. A slow shudder would cause all the motion to smear. What they have is a fast shudder that captures the action crystal clear and makes motion look jumpy. At least that's how I remember it being.

John Threat · August 5th, 2003, 08:20 AM

Yup. It's 1/1000 shutter speed and above you are looking for to achieve that effect. I have plenty of examples of it, use it all the time on close action shots.

Kris Carrillo · August 5th, 2003, 12:21 PM

i'm pretty sure in gladiator they changed the shutter angle as well. you can't do this with an XL1, but on some film cameras you can make the shutter angle smaller than 180 degrees. i think they also changed the shutter angle in private ryan as well. this technique combined with a fast shutter speed produces the stroboscopic effect that everyone's into these days. but a shutter speed of around 1/1000 will get you close to the look on an XL1.

Kris Carrillo
Camera Operator
WCTV 56

Gints Klimanis · August 5th, 2003, 11:42 PM

I'm a martial artist and do quite a bit of video coverage of fights, including those that involve me. Even though the action is real, clearly, some elements are more prominent. In live events, people cheer for the same things. Keep in mind that almost everyone viewing your footage doesn't know much about real fighting and is totally conditioned by highly choreographed fight scenes to the point where people actually think one actor fights better than the other.

1) Include at least one reversal. That is have the bad guy appear to have and then lose the edge. Audiences can easily see a change in physical dominance. Captain Kirk did this all of the times with extraterrestrials. He actually stunk as a fighter, but everyone remembers the Star Trek fights. Captain Kirk is a bad *ass.

2) Show plenty of grimaces and record grunts. Anguish is what a fight scene is really about. Include heavy breathing and perhaps some sweat.
You can wet hair, backlight your subject's head, use a dark background, and have him quickly shake his head when the blow arrives.

3) Exaggerate and slow down all movements. Use wide punches and obvious recoils. Include a few high kicks because audiences love acrobatics, and seeing someone stick their foot in the air is easy to see. Every grandma
watching their kid in Tae Kwon Do class claps with glee when they see their five year-old stick their foot in the air.

4) Show skin. Bare chested knuckle fights are raw. Besides, if your subjects are wet, you don't have to add sound effects.

5) Consider using nasrty looking weapons. Some of the padded foam sparring sticks can be dressed up to look nasty. They make a nice whack sound on skin.

6) Consider using real welts. A thin 28" x 3/4" rattan (solid vine rathen than hollow, like bamboo) produces instant welts. Sure, they hurt a bit, but they don't hurt for more than an hour.

7) Use your environment
Pushes that cause subjects to bounce off walls and collapse objects look great. It is soooo easy yet painless to break dry wall. Falling objects, especially those large acrylic cups from CostCo, make a lot of sound when they're knocked off walls.

8) Find a natural "curdler." About 10% of men really scream and growl when they feel pain. Find one of them to growl during footage.

Rob Lohman · August 11th, 2003, 08:05 AM

I think most of the impact in fight scenes comes from sounds,
sound effects and music. After that I'd go for fast action with
tight shots and lots of cuts. And show reactions indeed. Matrix
is king at this [reactions and action sequences]

K. Forman · August 11th, 2003, 08:35 AM

"Captain Kirk is a bad *ass."

Thanks Gints! Oh... You said Kirk, Not Quirk. My bad :)

Arthur To · December 16th, 2003, 03:01 PM

well this is how we did it on the set of Jet Li's fist of legend.

do the fight scene over and over (whole thing) but the first time, get it wide and moving around

second get it med. and dollying
then get tele and moving (not as clear)

and pick one more
in post splice them around

-arthur

August 5th, 2003, 02:20 AM	#17
Brian Huey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Seattle , WA Posts: 184	Gladiator Fight Scenes The Gladiator fight scenes were shot with a really fast shutter (the +1/1000 speeds on an XL1) NOT a slow shudder. A slow shudder would cause all the motion to smear. What they have is a fast shudder that captures the action crystal clear and makes motion look jumpy. At least that's how I remember it being.

August 5th, 2003, 08:20 AM	#18
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	Yup. It's 1/1000 shutter speed and above you are looking for to achieve that effect. I have plenty of examples of it, use it all the time on close action shots. __________________ Director: http://www.mediathreat.com

August 11th, 2003, 08:05 AM	#21
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I think most of the impact in fight scenes comes from sounds, sound effects and music. After that I'd go for fast action with tight shots and lots of cuts. And show reactions indeed. Matrix is king at this [reactions and action sequences] __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 16th, 2003, 03:01 PM	#23
Arthur To Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cerritos, CA Posts: 78	well this is how we did it on the set of Jet Li's fist of legend. do the fight scene over and over (whole thing) but the first time, get it wide and moving around second get it med. and dollying then get tele and moving (not as clear) and pick one more in post splice them around -arthur __________________ xL1s

August 3rd, 2003, 07:51 AM	#16
Hal Huntsman New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 19	Thanks again for all your advice. I appreciate it. I'll get busy and do some test shots and see what will work for me. Muchas gracias Hal

August 5th, 2003, 12:21 PM	#19
Kris Carrillo Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 28	i'm pretty sure in gladiator they changed the shutter angle as well. you can't do this with an XL1, but on some film cameras you can make the shutter angle smaller than 180 degrees. i think they also changed the shutter angle in private ryan as well. this technique combined with a fast shutter speed produces the stroboscopic effect that everyone's into these days. but a shutter speed of around 1/1000 will get you close to the look on an XL1. Kris Carrillo Camera Operator WCTV 56

August 5th, 2003, 11:42 PM	#20
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I'm a martial artist and do quite a bit of video coverage of fights, including those that involve me. Even though the action is real, clearly, some elements are more prominent. In live events, people cheer for the same things. Keep in mind that almost everyone viewing your footage doesn't know much about real fighting and is totally conditioned by highly choreographed fight scenes to the point where people actually think one actor fights better than the other. 1) Include at least one reversal. That is have the bad guy appear to have and then lose the edge. Audiences can easily see a change in physical dominance. Captain Kirk did this all of the times with extraterrestrials. He actually stunk as a fighter, but everyone remembers the Star Trek fights. Captain Kirk is a bad *ass. 2) Show plenty of grimaces and record grunts. Anguish is what a fight scene is really about. Include heavy breathing and perhaps some sweat. You can wet hair, backlight your subject's head, use a dark background, and have him quickly shake his head when the blow arrives. 3) Exaggerate and slow down all movements. Use wide punches and obvious recoils. Include a few high kicks because audiences love acrobatics, and seeing someone stick their foot in the air is easy to see. Every grandma watching their kid in Tae Kwon Do class claps with glee when they see their five year-old stick their foot in the air. 4) Show skin. Bare chested knuckle fights are raw. Besides, if your subjects are wet, you don't have to add sound effects. 5) Consider using nasrty looking weapons. Some of the padded foam sparring sticks can be dressed up to look nasty. They make a nice whack sound on skin. 6) Consider using real welts. A thin 28" x 3/4" rattan (solid vine rathen than hollow, like bamboo) produces instant welts. Sure, they hurt a bit, but they don't hurt for more than an hour. 7) Use your environment Pushes that cause subjects to bounce off walls and collapse objects look great. It is soooo easy yet painless to break dry wall. Falling objects, especially those large acrylic cups from CostCo, make a lot of sound when they're knocked off walls. 8) Find a natural "curdler." About 10% of men really scream and growl when they feel pain. Find one of them to growl during footage.

August 11th, 2003, 08:35 AM	#22
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	"Captain Kirk is a bad *ass." Thanks Gints! Oh... You said Kirk, Not Quirk. My bad :)