Full auto mode users

[Chris Hull]

Originally Posted by Heiko Saele

With small prosumer camcorders like the DVX100 or HVX200 I sometimes use auto iris and/or auto focus - when I shoot eng-style stuff where I have to be quick and don't have a chance to repeat a scene. Try holding a HVX200 and quickly adjust iris and focus while moving around and still getting steady shots - it's almost impossible... with a shoulder mount you can do everything at the same time, and quickly (which is why I think handhelds are not a real option for eng shooting).

I never use auto white balance (it always looks crappy, better find a medium wb in advance and cc a little if needed) or auto gain.

In the scenario that you described I think it is highly unprofessional to leave even one setting in auto mode!

some camcorders like mine [for outdoor use]has best colour with auto white balance.fx-7

[Benjamin Hill]

Originally Posted by Corey Williams

Also, I didn't mean professional in terms of a dictionary technical description. If someone shot footage that was dark, out of focus and colors were off. Audio cuts in and out and they edit it on a low-end program. If they get paid for this are they too considered professional. Would you hire them?

Based on my experience, professionalism has as much to do with attitude, effort and skill as it does one's camera setting. I shoot full manual and full auto probably 50/50, just depends on the context.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Corey Williams

Waldemar, you understand what i'm talking about since you shoot real estate videos also. These people are asking for day rates and they are not delivering quality footage. I don't know if it's their first time shooting real estate videos, but it's not working for them. Not to offend anyone, but i can put a camera in the hands of anyone in full auto mode and show them how to pan and tilt. Especially since the camera is doing the work and they're only moving it around.

IMHO, the difference between a professional's skills and a wannabe is not in whether he uses ever auto modes or not, it's that he knows when he could use auto modes to make his workflow more efficient and when he can't because quality will suffer. The bottom line is the pro knows what constitutes quality footage, knows how to get it, and does whatever it takes to deliver it.

[Corey Williams]

Steve, I agree with you. You've said a lot. I guess we've run across wannabees who are trying to pass themselves off as professionals.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Corey -

One thing I learned long ago is it's not the tool it's guy handling it. Someone that knows how to shoot might be able to get good footage with auto settings in the appropriate circumstances, but they need to know when to take control and how to do it.

I think the suggestions for minimum standards/guidelines are good - you'll scare off the "uncle Bob" and "Johnny just took a class in school" types, and you won't have to pay for crap footage.

You really should screen and get demos of similar shoots before you even hire anyone - it's no obstacle, they could shoot their own house if they don't have a reel and want the gig. And you don't have to try to polish a t**d when editing!

Another idea might be to put together a "show reel" of what level of quality you are expecting, sometimes that will inspire and pull better quality out of someone who "thinks" their stuff is great, when it "isn't"...

[Karl Heiner]

i am kind of surprised how some of you talk down to the beginners. i think that is an excellent question (post1)

haven'd you all started out as a beginner?
what makes some of you to "professionals" ? did you go to school, have a ba in video recording/ camera handling etc.?

isn't the idea of this board to exchange information and experiences?

[Allen Plowman]

Originally Posted by Corey Williams

Thanks for everyone's opinion on this subject. I wanted to pass it on to the people I work for. I don't hire these people. I only edit what they've shot. I agree you have to use auto in some circumstance's. In staged circumstances, such as real estate I don't think so. When we shoot "Cheaters" we have to go full auto when we jump out of the van's. There's no good way to adjust iris and focus when you're running behind people and things are being thrown at you. Also, with 8 cameras, you will always have a shot to work with.

Also, I didn't mean professional in terms of a dictionary technical description. If someone shot footage that was dark, out of focus and colors were off. Audio cuts in and out and they edit it on a low-end program. If they get paid for this are they too considered professional. Would you hire them?

your original question did not address your concern, I gave a specific answer to your question. you later clarified your concerns and got reasonable answers. had you asked if a lousy videographer should apply for the job, the answer is: why not? in my opinion, the bad guy here is the company that hires the substandard workers. My guess is, they hire the lousy ones for peanuts, they pay you to clean it up a little, and quality doesn't seem to matter as much as price. I am considering getting into the video tour market, and I personally would rather film at dawn or dusk so the camera can actually capture not only the room itself, but the view outside the window. if a person sets the camera to manual, and the view outside the window is not shown clearly, are they a lousy videographer?
does a really talented videographer do real estate videos that apparently tend to pay about 75 dollars each?
would I hire the lousy videographer? no I would not. why does the company you work for hire them in the first place?
do people not qualified for a job still try to get the work? of course they do!
maybe the lousy videographers in question have no clue they are not the best in the world. when a lousy video comes to you, are you able to tell the company to never hire that person again? what methods of background checks do they do? or are you merely ranting that there are some people less qualified for the job than yourself?



These are strictly my opinions, and I will stand behind them until I change my mind

[Michael Jouravlev]

Would you call a driver who don't know how to drive a car with manual transmission a professional?

The whole point of technical progress is removing manual work and making it automatic, be it driving a car, washing clothes or shooting a video. Would you refrain from buying a camera that shoots in full auto better than in manual on a premise that it will make you a non-professional?

It is not auto vs manual, it is whether their video good or not. I would just point out to particular problems in their video and would ask to fix them. I would not care how exactly it was shot.

Originally Posted by Corey Williams

When we shoot "Cheaters"...

I hate those who set people up, who shoot and then broadcast something that was supposed to be private. I don't know how much shows like these are staged, but to me they are revolting. Sorry for hijacking the topic a bit.

[Allen Plowman]

I agree with Michael, there are a great many film shots that CAN be shot on full auto, with the right operator

[Corey Williams]

Originally Posted by Allen Plowman

when a lousy video comes to you, are you able to tell the company to never hire that person again? what methods of background checks do they do? or are you merely ranting that there are some people less qualified for the job than yourself?

When a bad one comes in, of course I tell them to never use that person again. I'm not sure about the background checks. The people probably direct them to some of their better looking vids don't entail the same shooting scenarios. I edit and shoot what i'm assigned. No i'm not ranting. I'm merely voicing my opinion in a discussion. I only wanted to see what other's thought.

The footage that I get that's bad is shot in auto mode. If you know how and when to use it, good. If not, leave it alone if your on a job for someone else. I've read everyone's thoughts. Some were very good and I understand where they are coming from. Especially about delivering the best footage no matter what method was used to get it. Some people, however, seem offended about this whole auto mode discussion. I wonder why. I started shooting on betacam sp when I was 19. It was manual so I learned how to handle situations from a eng standpoint. There was no switch to move that would let you point and shoot. Just wondered what were the thoughts from everyone about people who buy cameras and start soliciting jobs without knowing how to really make the camera work for them.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Karl Heiner

i am kind of surprised how some of you talk down to the beginners. i think that is an excellent question (post1)

haven'd you all started out as a beginner?
what makes some of you to "professionals" ? did you go to school, have a ba in video recording/ camera handling etc.?

isn't the idea of this board to exchange information and experiences?

I don't think a "beginner" should be passing themselves as professionals. There are so many places you can learn and books and ways to access equipment to learn, so I don't really think that's acceptable. You don't expect your plumber to be a "beginner", inexperienced perhaps, but they'll have the basic skills and knowledge.

I don't want to go as far as the film camera assistants, who in one instance asked, when one clapper loader said in the camera truck he couldn't load a Steadicam mag, "whats he doing here?" In that world, the clapper loader shouldve been practising the previous day; I know other assistants who would've been a bit more supportive, but it's a tough business. BTW They did teach him to load the mag.

Regarding auto modes, unfortunately the small cameras are rather poor at shooting fast in full manual. The software controlled lens are slow to react compared to the manual lenses, so you're sometimes forced to use auto, however, the best compromise can be to allow the auto to set the iris and focus and switch to manual.

However, a cameraperson who can only shoot in auto is limited in what they can do. Full auto can be acceptable on some fly on the wall documentaries, although the subject matter has to be interesting to avoid the in focus wall behind the subject becoming distracting.

[Marco Wagner]

Here's a noodle baker ~When is someone considered a pro? I've been working with a camera and NLE for 7 years and still KNOW I need much more experience/education to utter the words "I'm a pro". Is it consistently producing quality material? Is it making a living with camera/NLE? Is it working with celebs?

Only recently in the last couple shoots we've done have I started to become truly elated with what ended up on tape. Having an industry "pro" compliment my work last week on a private project was a great feeling. What is the separating line between pro and proficient?

[Allen Plowman]

Corey, your original post was vague, I think that started the offensive ideas. you made it sound like a good videographer should never use full auto, with no explanation of your reason for your post. you later explained very good reason, that your company is having difficulty with underqualified workers. is it possible to make the agreement read that payment will be made after footage is reviewed? when a tape is dropped off, possibly at least look at a few spots on the tape to check the quality of the videographer? from what I gather in your posts, you seem to imply that putting an ad stating the company only wants professionals will ensure that you get the product that you want, every time. I feel that the company is at fault here for hiring underqualified workers. and as far as the original post, I feel a professional will use every tool at his disposal, and if a shot requires full auto for some unknown reason, a good videographer will not hesitate to do so. I also feel it would be virtually impossible to get good real estate videos on full auto. I have not yet done a video tour, but I am intending to start this summer. your thread has given me a lot of insight of potential pitfalls.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

Here's a noodle baker ~When is someone considered a pro? I've been working with a camera and NLE for 7 years and still KNOW I need much more experience/education to utter the words "I'm a pro". Is it consistently producing quality material? Is it making a living with camera/NLE? Is it working with celebs?

Only recently in the last couple shoots we've done have I started to become truly elated with what ended up on tape. Having an industry "pro" compliment my work last week on a private project was a great feeling. What is the separating line between pro and proficient?

The basic difference is Pro is short for professional, which means you're getting paid.

However, you can have a professional approach in the sense you plan and work in a well structured, knowledgeable manner, but you're not a pro in the sense you're not earning your living from it.

An amateur is someone who does something for the love of it - as a hobby -they can be talented filmmakers, but they don't wish to earn their living from it. But it's often used as an insult towards disorganised professionals lacking in skills. Unfortunately the word tends to have more of the latter meaning these days and so people call themselves Indies, which in industry terms is a film make outside the studio system.

You can also have professionals who have the amateur's love for what they're doing. That is, they're in the fortunate position of earning their living from their hobby.

[Allen Plowman]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

The basic difference is Pro is short for professional, which means you're getting paid.

However, you can have a professional approach in the sense you plan and work in a well structured, knowledgeable manner, but you're not a pro in the sense you're not earning your living from it.

An amateur is someone who does something for the love of it - as a hobby -they can be talented filmmakers, but they don't wish to earn their living from it. But it's often used as an insult towards disorganized professionals lacking in skills. Unfortunately the word tends to have more of the latter meaning these days and so people call themselves Indies, which in industry terms is a film make outside the studio system.

You can also have professionals who have the amateur's love for what they're doing. That is, they're in the fortunate position of earning their living from their hobby.

Very well put!!