Really really need some help choosing NLE at DVinfo.net

Ivo van Aart · July 21st, 2007, 02:49 AM

>>>This is a very long question, I know. But please take your time to answer it, as I'm getting pretty desperate! Thank you!<<<

I'm having a bit of a problem here. We're shooting a feature (90 min). And we'll be editting soon. But there are some problems: I thought I could edit on my 2ghz dual core 1gb ram laptop with 256mb videocard, but it's pretty difficult.

Here are the things I want from a editting workflow:
-An Final Cut Pro-like interface (I was trained in FCP, but now I must work with a PC).
-A fluid playback, preferably WITH corolcorrection.
-If fluid playback with colorcorrection is not possible, it should render to a codec like Canopus HQ or Aspect HD
-Multiple timelines needed! I want to edit a scene in one timeline, then drop the timeline in another timeline with the other scenes to create the whole film. I that's not possible, the software should offer another alternative.

Now, I've tried the following NLE's:

-Edius
Very FCP-like interface. Also renders to lossless codec! Pretty fast, but not fast enough (stutters like hell sometimes). I found no timeline-in-timeline-options and I can't open the bin to view clips. So two (three, incl. the speed-problem) problems must be fixed before I want to use Edius

-Vegas
VERY fast. But after colorcorrection this NLE's videoplayback is far from smooth. Also it doesn't have a FCP-like interface and no timeline-in-timeline-options. (As far as a could find).

-Premiere Pro CS3
Beautiful and surprisingly fast! Very FCP-like interface. I feel right at home. But: doesn't cope with colorcorrection. Playback is far from smooth when colorcorrecting. Renders to MPG and renders veeeery slow (10 minutes for 1 minute of video, outrageous).

So none of these NLE's has all the functions I need. I know it's also hardware related, but I'm not in the position to buy better hardware right now (and 2ghz dualcore should be great?). So, what NLE should I choose, and what should I do to fix the problem? Please suggest other NLE's if there is a better one not listed.

Thanks very much!

Ivo van Aart · July 25th, 2007, 04:02 AM

Anyone? :-(

Harm Millaard · July 25th, 2007, 06:28 AM

Ivo,

Whichever way you turn it, no NLE has it all. Some are more suited for one workflow, others for another workflow. From my personal experience I never liked Edius due to the interface, I found Vegas not to my liking even though I use Sound Forge quite a lot. I currently use CS3 which is not the fastest NLE, but suits my needs quite acceptably, although the rendering times for color correction are a bit slow. However it is negligent in comparison to 3D applications. Can you imagine a 10 second 3D clip requiring several hours of rendering on a 5 PC render farm?

Check out the demos of each and choose the one you like best for your work flow.

Domenico Cappello · July 25th, 2007, 08:50 AM

This is what is on their website:
Mix and edit multiple formats in real time
Combine HD, SD, DV, and film formats and resolutions, as well as Avid AVR and Meridien JFIF media, in the same timeline - without rendering, transcoding, or re-digitizing. Edit native DVCPRO HD and HDV media. And take advantage of real-time, mixed-format HD, SD, and DV multicam editing.
Handle film and video sources with confidence - The industry's most powerful and precise 24p technology lets you handle film and video projects with equal ease and efficiency.

Themis Gyparis · July 25th, 2007, 10:52 AM

Well Ivo, I'll have to agree with Harm. There is no NLE software that has it all. Avid Media Composer is extremely professional, but if you were trained on FCP I'd suggest you better leave it. Avid software has a tottaly different approach to editing that you're going to find very difficult to adjust to, so if time is also an issue, avoid it for the moment but try it in the future. I'm sure you'll stick with it.
Now, if you want my opinion, If I were you, I'd go for a Mac Pro, Final Cut Studio 2 and the new AJA I/O with the ProRes 422 codec. I understand you have to do the work on a PC, but if you want something that's both familiar and very professional, try to find a way to do te job there.
On the other hand, if working on a PC is necessary, my experience has shown that Edius workstations are easy-going. In a few days, meaning around the beginning of August, comes the release of Edius 4.5 that supports more formats and also contains some new tools for encoding and sharing. Check out www.canopus.us for more details. As far as I can tell you, my experience with Edius so far has proved to be good, although I would instantly trade it for FC Studio. The choice is yours.

Hope I helped you

Keep up the good work

Themis

Glenn Chan · July 26th, 2007, 02:49 AM

Vegas doesn't have timeline in timeline. You can however throw a .veg project into another. (Nested projects in Vegas terminology.)

David Stoneburner · July 26th, 2007, 08:23 AM

If you're still trying out NLEs you might want to try Avid Liquid 7. It runs very well on my AMD 2800+ with 1.5 gig of ram. Actually I'm running v.6, but they are similar. Look at the specs and see if it's worth the download.

Ivo van Aart · July 26th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Thanks for all the kind replies!

Well, cineform and cs3 together are perfect. But as I already have CS3 (not illegal, but don't ask) I don't have Aspect HD, and I can't afford it (anymore).
So, in about 10 days my ability to colorcorrect realtime will be gone...

I'll give avid media composer a try, but I believe it if you say that it will be hard adapting. Still worth the try...

Is there another lossless codec for CS3?

Graham Hickling · July 27th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivo van Aart

Is there another lossless codec for CS3?

Try googling "MSU lossless codec" and "huffyuv"

July 21st, 2007, 02:49 AM	#1
Ivo van Aart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Breda, Netherlands Posts: 67	Really really need some help choosing NLE >>>This is a very long question, I know. But please take your time to answer it, as I'm getting pretty desperate! Thank you!<<< I'm having a bit of a problem here. We're shooting a feature (90 min). And we'll be editting soon. But there are some problems: I thought I could edit on my 2ghz dual core 1gb ram laptop with 256mb videocard, but it's pretty difficult. Here are the things I want from a editting workflow: -An Final Cut Pro-like interface (I was trained in FCP, but now I must work with a PC). -A fluid playback, preferably WITH corolcorrection. -If fluid playback with colorcorrection is not possible, it should render to a codec like Canopus HQ or Aspect HD -Multiple timelines needed! I want to edit a scene in one timeline, then drop the timeline in another timeline with the other scenes to create the whole film. I that's not possible, the software should offer another alternative. Now, I've tried the following NLE's: -Edius Very FCP-like interface. Also renders to lossless codec! Pretty fast, but not fast enough (stutters like hell sometimes). I found no timeline-in-timeline-options and I can't open the bin to view clips. So two (three, incl. the speed-problem) problems must be fixed before I want to use Edius -Vegas VERY fast. But after colorcorrection this NLE's videoplayback is far from smooth. Also it doesn't have a FCP-like interface and no timeline-in-timeline-options. (As far as a could find). -Premiere Pro CS3 Beautiful and surprisingly fast! Very FCP-like interface. I feel right at home. But: doesn't cope with colorcorrection. Playback is far from smooth when colorcorrecting. Renders to MPG and renders veeeery slow (10 minutes for 1 minute of video, outrageous). So none of these NLE's has all the functions I need. I know it's also hardware related, but I'm not in the position to buy better hardware right now (and 2ghz dualcore should be great?). So, what NLE should I choose, and what should I do to fix the problem? Please suggest other NLE's if there is a better one not listed. Thanks very much!

July 25th, 2007, 08:50 AM	#4
Domenico Cappello New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Mexico Posts: 6	Have you tried AVID Media Composer? This is what is on their website: Mix and edit multiple formats in real time Combine HD, SD, DV, and film formats and resolutions, as well as Avid AVR and Meridien JFIF media, in the same timeline - without rendering, transcoding, or re-digitizing. Edit native DVCPRO HD and HDV media. And take advantage of real-time, mixed-format HD, SD, and DV multicam editing. Handle film and video sources with confidence - The industry's most powerful and precise 24p technology lets you handle film and video projects with equal ease and efficiency.

July 25th, 2007, 10:52 AM	#5
Themis Gyparis Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 91	none has it all... but.... Well Ivo, I'll have to agree with Harm. There is no NLE software that has it all. Avid Media Composer is extremely professional, but if you were trained on FCP I'd suggest you better leave it. Avid software has a tottaly different approach to editing that you're going to find very difficult to adjust to, so if time is also an issue, avoid it for the moment but try it in the future. I'm sure you'll stick with it. Now, if you want my opinion, If I were you, I'd go for a Mac Pro, Final Cut Studio 2 and the new AJA I/O with the ProRes 422 codec. I understand you have to do the work on a PC, but if you want something that's both familiar and very professional, try to find a way to do te job there. On the other hand, if working on a PC is necessary, my experience has shown that Edius workstations are easy-going. In a few days, meaning around the beginning of August, comes the release of Edius 4.5 that supports more formats and also contains some new tools for encoding and sharing. Check out www.canopus.us for more details. As far as I can tell you, my experience with Edius so far has proved to be good, although I would instantly trade it for FC Studio. The choice is yours. Hope I helped you Keep up the good work Themis

July 25th, 2007, 04:02 AM	#2
Ivo van Aart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Breda, Netherlands Posts: 67	Anyone? :-(

July 25th, 2007, 06:28 AM	#3
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Ivo, Whichever way you turn it, no NLE has it all. Some are more suited for one workflow, others for another workflow. From my personal experience I never liked Edius due to the interface, I found Vegas not to my liking even though I use Sound Forge quite a lot. I currently use CS3 which is not the fastest NLE, but suits my needs quite acceptably, although the rendering times for color correction are a bit slow. However it is negligent in comparison to 3D applications. Can you imagine a 10 second 3D clip requiring several hours of rendering on a 5 PC render farm? Check out the demos of each and choose the one you like best for your work flow.

July 26th, 2007, 02:49 AM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Vegas doesn't have timeline in timeline. You can however throw a .veg project into another. (Nested projects in Vegas terminology.)

July 26th, 2007, 08:23 AM	#7
David Stoneburner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 493	If you're still trying out NLEs you might want to try Avid Liquid 7. It runs very well on my AMD 2800+ with 1.5 gig of ram. Actually I'm running v.6, but they are similar. Look at the specs and see if it's worth the download.

July 26th, 2007, 04:10 PM	#8
Ivo van Aart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Breda, Netherlands Posts: 67	Thanks for all the kind replies! Well, cineform and cs3 together are perfect. But as I already have CS3 (not illegal, but don't ask) I don't have Aspect HD, and I can't afford it (anymore). So, in about 10 days my ability to colorcorrect realtime will be gone... I'll give avid media composer a try, but I believe it if you say that it will be hard adapting. Still worth the try... Is there another lossless codec for CS3?