Reduce the heat on your PC at DVinfo.net

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 12:25 PM

First, remove the cover to your PC and leave that damn thing off!

Check out the temp difference with a temp guage. Stick the temp gauge into the box near the processor with the cover on then try it with the cover off. Then make up your own mind.

Second, consider searching the internet for a "good" cooling system. About $200.00 and it will cool two systems or two processors.

Third, install low voltage "FANS".

I have 3 computers running, two at all times. The third is my NLE system which has duel monitors and a JVC 17" monitor. Damn hot in a 12X12 room. SO I installed my DeLonghi Cooler.

Nigel Moore · May 18th, 2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

First, remove the cover to your PC and leave that damn thing off!

Better to use an aluminium case rather than steel. Aluminium conducts heat more effeciently. Lian-Li (who make exceptionally beautiful and easy to use cases) claim temperature differences of 10-12degC.

I also use round cables rather than ribbon cables. They're supposed to improve airflow, although how true this is is open to debate I guess.

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 01:08 PM

Okay,

The company Laird and Markerted and Ocean and others are owned by Tower Products, inc.

I agree with the use of that aluminienimum (sp). 6162 T6 is good for a conductor and it eliminates the heat.

Many sinks are made of this 6000 series metal.

But then they coat them with 'PAINT', would you believe. WRONG!

You said around cable. Ya, I like that idea.

Okay, to keep a widgit cool you need the induction of cool or the extraction of heat (Kelvin almost).

Simple "heat exchangers" are the answer. Maybe.

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 01:14 PM

Lets take a compressor for an airconditioner in our car. Not real big but to big.

Reduce the size of these as they have motors/VDC of motors.

A mini airconditioner system for two computers or used as one.

I would only need 12VDC and covered with insulation (for noise), installed in the PC and exhausts through a heat exchanger that exhausts back into the computer.

Must be the wine as Eisnstein on said.

Regards,

Nigel Moore · May 18th, 2003, 01:26 PM

I have no experience of Tower Products.

AFAIK, however, Lian-Li aluminium cases are anodised, not painted.

Alex Knappenberger · May 18th, 2003, 02:09 PM

The "box" your talking about, is called a Heatsink, and the proper way to get a heat reading, would not be by testing the heat of the heatsink. Most motherboards today have built in heat sensors behind the CPU, and if you download a program (i use a program called speedfan) it will display that heat reading, along with a heat reading of your main chipset, in windows. However, the most accurate way, is to put a heat sensor, right on the core of the processor, these products are sold at many places, and theres many different ones, ranging from just a plain thermometor (sp) to advanced ones that can control the speed of your fans, and a bunch of other stuff from a control panel that you install in a 5.25" bay.

Unless your processor is overheating (over 60C for P4's, and over about 70C for Athlon's) or if some other component is getting too hot (powersupply, hard drives, video card) then theres no reason to "reduce the heat on your PC". Adding more fans actually makes it worse, I know that from experience, I have 12 fans on my system, and they keep everything nice and chilly, but at the same time, blowing all that hot air allover this small bedroom, along with my monitor and other gear, it gets pretty hot in here.

Like I mentioned, I have 12 fans on my system. Necessary? Not at all. Why you ask? Because they were only $1.00 each with grills at the place I ordered my case from a while ago, why not? I know one thing, and thats with all them on, this puppies pretty loud, comparable to a jet, and theres over 500CFM of air going through my case...

And everything mentioned here, about AC's and all that, has already been done, and theres products you can buy. There's also watercooling, which is pretty popular. There's also a Peltier solution, and many many other ways. Look it up on the net, there are numorous forums and websites for all this stuff. Check out www.extremeoverclocking.com and www.overclockersforum.com

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 02:37 PM

I didn't know high school kids to read!!

Keep up the good work. Just don't buy a Sony.

Scott Osborne · May 18th, 2003, 04:14 PM

Blowing cold air at a hot PC will more than likely cause condensation. So you would have to find some way to insulate the compenents from drastic tempature changes. Ther is a case made called the Prometia that has a built in air conditioning system but from what I heard it really heats up the room its in. No matter what you cool with it will make the room in which the Pcs are hot. Whether is water, refridgerate, or air cooling these things all work by transfering heat from one area to another. So the only real way to make the room cool is to vent the heat to the outside. Or you can install a window unit A/C in the computer room. A freind of may came up with a unique method he created a centralized water cooling system for his 6 Pcs that cools the CPUs,Gpus and Hard drives. The system collects the water in a tank outside and cooled with a racing style triple core raditor that has a large industrial blower circulating air through it. The entire system is pressurized and has several redundant componets..Its pretty neat but I cant keep from thinking what if it leaks...

Andrew Petrie · May 18th, 2003, 05:42 PM

I'll be brief, as I don't have time at the moment :)

First, you need a quality case. Aluminum, with a well-designed interior for air flow. I use a Lian-Li, one of the best makers in the business. Seal up any holes and let the air flow through the fans (front, back, perhaps a side or top blowhole, and the power supply fan(s) ). My case for example, has a hard drive cage seated bottom front of the case, with 2 80mm ball bearing fans blowing through it. My hard drives are _cold_ when in use.
* - you could take the case cover off, but the last thing you want is dust and static around your expensive parts. Also, an open case is louder.

Next, an efficient power supply. Cheap crappy power supplies (ones you get with steel cases usually) will output more energy as heat, than a well-built supply. A good indicator of a quality power supply, is the weight. A good unit is pretty heavy!

A quality heat sink for your cpu - the best seem to be made out of copper, but they come at a price. You often have to sacrifice noise for performance.... Slap a layer of conductive grease between the sink and cpu die and you're good to go.
* - you could try water cooling, and various other methods. But they come at a premium.

RAM heat sinks are flashy and not required.

Tie up all the cables within the case to allow for better air flow. You can buy rounded IDE cables, or to what I do and carefully cut the wires and tie them with a ziptie. Same thing, and a lot cheaper. :)

Leave a PCI slot (or more) free next to the video card. Many cards get hot, and the space gives the fan a bit more breathing room.

Place cool-running PCI cards down at the bottom of your motherboard - sound cards, DVD decoders, network cards, etc... all run cool.

If you don't need a device inside the case, take it out. (duh)

Place the entire unit in a cool place. Try not to put it in a hutch, as the exhaust air can't really go anywhere, and lingers... slowly creating a warm blanket.

My previous PC I rigged up a ducting system, attached to theback of my PC to a nearby window. $5 worth of flex tubing. All hot air was vented outside. In the winter, the vent pointed to my feet - to keep my tootsies warm :)

K. Forman · May 19th, 2003, 05:02 AM

Andrew is exactly right. The case helps keep things out, such as dust, moisture, pet hair, pets, and kids. To remove it only increases the risk of damage, and does little to help cool.

Glen Elliott · May 19th, 2003, 09:08 AM

Simple use an Antec case with lots of fans thoughtfully placed. Also have all your spare wires loomed tightly- they are horrid for air-flow. Lastly, it doesn't hurt to have your room climate controlled at a constant 69 degrees via a 9,000 btu a/c. :)
Seriously I've checked mb temp before and had it read at 70 degrees....all that....with the case still closed.

Bob Deming · May 19th, 2003, 11:59 AM

My rackmount gets very hot with the case on.

I have sensors from "Simpson (tm). They make some of the finest test gear in the world. Simpson has very nice temp indicators and temp controllers.

Their thermocouple inputs work very well.

Wrong. But depending on your situation. Removing the case does keep a (rackmounted) system cooler. I have the test results using a Simpson temp indicator and controller for fans.

And depending on the type of aluminum used. Honeycomb works great since it has an airspace between layers. Then cut holes attach fans and set you fan unit on top of your rackmounted computer.

You can purchase laminated copper/aluminum which is honeycombed for a fair price. Or if you have an aviation background like I do, you can put together cool things. Plus here in Tucson we store aircraft because the humidity is low and we have nice temps.

When you enter into an "approved" aviation avionics shop just about every cover is off the equipment and it is rackmounted. There must be a reason! I worked in avionics for many years before I started flying corporate jets.

The technology that I learned in the aircraft industry, I use at home.

But lets be fair. I have the money and time to put together cool projects. I have a machine shop and a wood working shop. Thus, I can build anything to .010 or better and that includes making prototypes out of wood as I am doing today.

If you can keep your ambient temp 70F or below you are in good shape if you have the basic fans going. They idea is to keep the new air moving across the chips' heat sink fins.

If you really want to get into freezing a chip, take a look at the process of photographing the universe. Those chips such as in a simple Celestron/SBIG camera get cold.

Bottom line is based on how much money and time you have to put into a project to keep your equipment cool.

Alex Knappenberger · May 19th, 2003, 12:25 PM

Here's a couple pictures of my case with a bunch of fans, incase anyone cares:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case1.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case2.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case3.jpg

I'll sell it for $80, with both powersupplies and all the fans, if you don't mind the slight ghetto modding, heh. :D

BTW -- I only think 2 of the 80mm fans out of the 4 in the front are actually functional right now, heh...the rest all work, and theres 2 switches on the front, one to turn the neon light on and off, and one to toggle 3 fans on/off (back, 2 side, the rest are on all the time)...

Nigel Moore · May 19th, 2003, 12:32 PM

<controversial>The only people sadder than those that take pictures of their cases are those that put neon-lit windows in.</controversial>

Dennis Adams · May 19th, 2003, 02:34 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Deming : First, remove the cover to your PC and leave that damn thing off!
-->>>

Actually, some PCs depend on the cover being on for proper airflow over the components that need it the most.

///d@

May 18th, 2003, 12:25 PM	#1
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Reduce the heat on your PC First, remove the cover to your PC and leave that damn thing off! Check out the temp difference with a temp guage. Stick the temp gauge into the box near the processor with the cover on then try it with the cover off. Then make up your own mind. Second, consider searching the internet for a "good" cooling system. About $200.00 and it will cool two systems or two processors. Third, install low voltage "FANS". I have 3 computers running, two at all times. The third is my NLE system which has duel monitors and a JVC 17" monitor. Damn hot in a 12X12 room. SO I installed my DeLonghi Cooler. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 01:08 PM	#3
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Nigel you hit on something Okay, The company Laird and Markerted and Ocean and others are owned by Tower Products, inc. I agree with the use of that aluminienimum (sp). 6162 T6 is good for a conductor and it eliminates the heat. Many sinks are made of this 6000 series metal. But then they coat them with 'PAINT', would you believe. WRONG! You said around cable. Ya, I like that idea. Okay, to keep a widgit cool you need the induction of cool or the extraction of heat (Kelvin almost). Simple "heat exchangers" are the answer. Maybe. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 01:14 PM	#4
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Okay A mini cooler Lets take a compressor for an airconditioner in our car. Not real big but to big. Reduce the size of these as they have motors/VDC of motors. A mini airconditioner system for two computers or used as one. I would only need 12VDC and covered with insulation (for noise), installed in the PC and exhausts through a heat exchanger that exhausts back into the computer. Must be the wine as Eisnstein on said. Regards, __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 01:26 PM	#5
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	I have no experience of Tower Products. AFAIK, however, Lian-Li aluminium cases are anodised, not painted. __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 18th, 2003, 02:37 PM	#7
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Huh? I didn't know high school kids to read!! Keep up the good work. Just don't buy a Sony. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 02:09 PM	#6
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	The "box" your talking about, is called a Heatsink, and the proper way to get a heat reading, would not be by testing the heat of the heatsink. Most motherboards today have built in heat sensors behind the CPU, and if you download a program (i use a program called speedfan) it will display that heat reading, along with a heat reading of your main chipset, in windows. However, the most accurate way, is to put a heat sensor, right on the core of the processor, these products are sold at many places, and theres many different ones, ranging from just a plain thermometor (sp) to advanced ones that can control the speed of your fans, and a bunch of other stuff from a control panel that you install in a 5.25" bay. Unless your processor is overheating (over 60C for P4's, and over about 70C for Athlon's) or if some other component is getting too hot (powersupply, hard drives, video card) then theres no reason to "reduce the heat on your PC". Adding more fans actually makes it worse, I know that from experience, I have 12 fans on my system, and they keep everything nice and chilly, but at the same time, blowing all that hot air allover this small bedroom, along with my monitor and other gear, it gets pretty hot in here. Like I mentioned, I have 12 fans on my system. Necessary? Not at all. Why you ask? Because they were only $1.00 each with grills at the place I ordered my case from a while ago, why not? I know one thing, and thats with all them on, this puppies pretty loud, comparable to a jet, and theres over 500CFM of air going through my case... And everything mentioned here, about AC's and all that, has already been done, and theres products you can buy. There's also watercooling, which is pretty popular. There's also a Peltier solution, and many many other ways. Look it up on the net, there are numorous forums and websites for all this stuff. Check out www.extremeoverclocking.com and www.overclockersforum.com

May 18th, 2003, 04:14 PM	#8
Scott Osborne Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 116	Blowing cold air at a hot PC will more than likely cause condensation. So you would have to find some way to insulate the compenents from drastic tempature changes. Ther is a case made called the Prometia that has a built in air conditioning system but from what I heard it really heats up the room its in. No matter what you cool with it will make the room in which the Pcs are hot. Whether is water, refridgerate, or air cooling these things all work by transfering heat from one area to another. So the only real way to make the room cool is to vent the heat to the outside. Or you can install a window unit A/C in the computer room. A freind of may came up with a unique method he created a centralized water cooling system for his 6 Pcs that cools the CPUs,Gpus and Hard drives. The system collects the water in a tank outside and cooled with a racing style triple core raditor that has a large industrial blower circulating air through it. The entire system is pressurized and has several redundant componets..Its pretty neat but I cant keep from thinking what if it leaks... __________________ Scott Osborne Infinite Video Productions

May 18th, 2003, 05:42 PM	#9
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	I'll be brief, as I don't have time at the moment :) First, you need a quality case. Aluminum, with a well-designed interior for air flow. I use a Lian-Li, one of the best makers in the business. Seal up any holes and let the air flow through the fans (front, back, perhaps a side or top blowhole, and the power supply fan(s) ). My case for example, has a hard drive cage seated bottom front of the case, with 2 80mm ball bearing fans blowing through it. My hard drives are _cold_ when in use. * - you could take the case cover off, but the last thing you want is dust and static around your expensive parts. Also, an open case is louder. Next, an efficient power supply. Cheap crappy power supplies (ones you get with steel cases usually) will output more energy as heat, than a well-built supply. A good indicator of a quality power supply, is the weight. A good unit is pretty heavy! A quality heat sink for your cpu - the best seem to be made out of copper, but they come at a price. You often have to sacrifice noise for performance.... Slap a layer of conductive grease between the sink and cpu die and you're good to go. * - you could try water cooling, and various other methods. But they come at a premium. RAM heat sinks are flashy and not required. Tie up all the cables within the case to allow for better air flow. You can buy rounded IDE cables, or to what I do and carefully cut the wires and tie them with a ziptie. Same thing, and a lot cheaper. :) Leave a PCI slot (or more) free next to the video card. Many cards get hot, and the space gives the fan a bit more breathing room. Place cool-running PCI cards down at the bottom of your motherboard - sound cards, DVD decoders, network cards, etc... all run cool. If you don't need a device inside the case, take it out. (duh) Place the entire unit in a cool place. Try not to put it in a hutch, as the exhaust air can't really go anywhere, and lingers... slowly creating a warm blanket. My previous PC I rigged up a ducting system, attached to theback of my PC to a nearby window. $5 worth of flex tubing. All hot air was vented outside. In the winter, the vent pointed to my feet - to keep my tootsies warm :) __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

May 19th, 2003, 05:02 AM	#10
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Andrew is exactly right. The case helps keep things out, such as dust, moisture, pet hair, pets, and kids. To remove it only increases the risk of damage, and does little to help cool.

May 19th, 2003, 09:08 AM	#11
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Simple use an Antec case with lots of fans thoughtfully placed. Also have all your spare wires loomed tightly- they are horrid for air-flow. Lastly, it doesn't hurt to have your room climate controlled at a constant 69 degrees via a 9,000 btu a/c. :) Seriously I've checked mb temp before and had it read at 70 degrees....all that....with the case still closed.

May 19th, 2003, 11:59 AM	#12
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Heat My rackmount gets very hot with the case on. I have sensors from "Simpson (tm). They make some of the finest test gear in the world. Simpson has very nice temp indicators and temp controllers. Their thermocouple inputs work very well. Wrong. But depending on your situation. Removing the case does keep a (rackmounted) system cooler. I have the test results using a Simpson temp indicator and controller for fans. And depending on the type of aluminum used. Honeycomb works great since it has an airspace between layers. Then cut holes attach fans and set you fan unit on top of your rackmounted computer. You can purchase laminated copper/aluminum which is honeycombed for a fair price. Or if you have an aviation background like I do, you can put together cool things. Plus here in Tucson we store aircraft because the humidity is low and we have nice temps. When you enter into an "approved" aviation avionics shop just about every cover is off the equipment and it is rackmounted. There must be a reason! I worked in avionics for many years before I started flying corporate jets. The technology that I learned in the aircraft industry, I use at home. But lets be fair. I have the money and time to put together cool projects. I have a machine shop and a wood working shop. Thus, I can build anything to .010 or better and that includes making prototypes out of wood as I am doing today. If you can keep your ambient temp 70F or below you are in good shape if you have the basic fans going. They idea is to keep the new air moving across the chips' heat sink fins. If you really want to get into freezing a chip, take a look at the process of photographing the universe. Those chips such as in a simple Celestron/SBIG camera get cold. Bottom line is based on how much money and time you have to put into a project to keep your equipment cool. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 19th, 2003, 12:25 PM	#13
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Here's a couple pictures of my case with a bunch of fans, incase anyone cares: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case1.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case2.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/case3.jpg I'll sell it for $80, with both powersupplies and all the fans, if you don't mind the slight ghetto modding, heh. :D BTW -- I only think 2 of the 80mm fans out of the 4 in the front are actually functional right now, heh...the rest all work, and theres 2 switches on the front, one to turn the neon light on and off, and one to toggle 3 fans on/off (back, 2 side, the rest are on all the time)...

May 19th, 2003, 12:32 PM	#14
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	<controversial>The only people sadder than those that take pictures of their cases are those that put neon-lit windows in.</controversial> __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 19th, 2003, 02:34 PM	#15
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	Re: Reduce the heat on your PC <<<-- Originally posted by Bob Deming : First, remove the cover to your PC and leave that damn thing off! -->>> Actually, some PCs depend on the cover being on for proper airflow over the components that need it the most. ///d@