A Newbie to Non-linear Editing on the PC at DVinfo.net

Neil McLean · May 5th, 2003, 08:31 AM

Hello,

I have just received my first ever DVCAM (PD150) and was wondering if Studio8 is a fairly good package to begin exploring the world of non-linear editing.

I understand that Adobe is so much better, but it might be a tad too much for a newbie.

At the moment I don't have a VCR or editing suite, so in the meantime, I'll be learning to edit via firewire.

My first project will probably be to edit some miniDV tapes that a friend shoot last summer.

Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated.

Regards,
Neil

Edward Troxel · May 5th, 2003, 08:55 AM

I would recommend you try Vegas. Download the demo first and see if it matches your workflow.

If you want a very inexpensive version, try Video Factory (much more limited but the same interface as Vegas).

Derrick Begin · May 5th, 2003, 09:05 AM

Neil,

First of all, welcome to you.

I just read your other post on this site. So, I'll put it all here. There are a lot of people using the PD150 and doing some excellent work. Features/shorts/documentaries etc.

Sounds like you are trying to build a studio. I don't know the product you are using for editing. If it works, then it sounds like you have a start. You will probably need a VCR/DVD Burner to output your work, unless you decide to take it to a production house and have them duplicate.

I am currently using the Sennheiser ME66/K6 Shotgun microphone. I am very happy with it and the sound quality. I use two Sony ECM-150 lavaliers when needed.

Good journey on your current project.

Hope this was some help.

Cheers!

Derrick

Neil McLean · May 5th, 2003, 02:16 PM

Edward - I'm in the process of d/l the Vegas demo, thanks!

Derrick - Thanks for your encouragement and support. For what it's worth, I actually bought my new PD150 from an outlet in New York. Apparently they are the oldest camera store in NY having been established since 1898. The guy I was dealing with Sam, was very, very helpful. He couldn't do enough to ensure all my questions were answered etc.

It is my intention to build a studio in time. (Gosh - everything is so expensive... still I guess that's the price you pay for quality eh?)

Looks like I can pick up the Sennheiser ME66/K6 Shotgun for about £200 / $300 inc. Since it comes c/w a windsock, would their be anything else I'd need to consider for this mic? For example, I'm assuming it comes with a smallish (12"?) lead to plug straight into the XLR socket.

Oh and before I forget, I've had a Pioneer DVD burner for about 18 months now, having just upgraded to their 105.

Many thanks and regards once again,
Neil

Derrick Begin · May 5th, 2003, 03:54 PM

I am not familiar with the PD150 and its audio inputs. I'll assume it has an XLR jack, for which you'll need a small XLR cable (Which you might be able to talk the person/company to give you one. Its not included.) if you are going to mount it directly to your camera. You might want to consider a boom pole and a 25' XLR cable if you are going to be doing a short. It really gets the mike in where it needs to be. However, if you don't have the extra hands then the camera mount should be fine. You'll need some insulation between the mount on the camera and the mike itself. The buzz of the camera motor has and was a problem with the sound on my XL1S. It may not be the same for the PD150.

The rest of the mike, well, a 1.5 AA battery. That'll do it. Some other colleagues on the board have the Pioneer burner. Sounds good.

Cheers!

Aaron Koolen · May 5th, 2003, 10:41 PM

Neil, you'll need a shockmount to assuming you're going to camera mount the ME66 at all .

Cheers
Aaron

Neil McLean · May 7th, 2003, 05:33 AM

Thanks for the advice Aaron. I'll keep this in mind.

Regards,
Neil

Ed Smith · May 7th, 2003, 05:55 AM

Studio 8 is a very nice consumer level editing package which teaches you the very basics of editing (Capture, Edit, Export). Although if you are planning to do this professionally I would suggest to work with apps like Premiere or Vegas, that way when you do something big you will know how to do it and Premiere/ Vegas give you far more effects etc.

If you go for Premiere you can buy it with many hardware options.
Premiere on its own costs about £500 where you can get it with the hardware giving you added real-time effects and analogue in/ out for the same price or a bit more. I.e. Pinnacle DV500DVD or MATROX RTX 100 or CANOPUS DV STORM. But be aware most of these are hardware specific i.e. specific CPU, RAM etc.

Cheers,

Ed

Will Fastie · May 7th, 2003, 07:24 AM

Studio 8 is a great package, the best of the lot of entry-level NLEs. It is, however, extremely buggy and giving lots of users lots of trouble.

You bought an upscale camcorder. I agree with the advice to buy an NLE a bit more upscale as well.

I'm in the Vegas camp.

Garret Ambrosio · May 7th, 2003, 02:37 PM

"Studio 8 is a very nice consumer level editing package which teaches you the very basics of editing (Capture, Edit, Export). "

It would be very nice if it would only boot up without crashing...save yourself the headache, buy Vegas albeit it is not as easy as Videowave or Studio 8, etc. but once you get the hang of it, it will be like riding a bike or a stick shift car, it all comes without using too much grey matter, do yourself a favor and either invest in the hard copy manual or print out the manual and work with it.

Lastly, negative about Vegas...No hot chick in front of the box or a free sample video of the chick getting her picture taken holding a CD. ;P

Neil McLean · May 8th, 2003, 03:03 AM

I've now got Vegas and just saved my first project. After editing the footage, (it's now about 5 minutes 30 seconds) I rendered as an avi file, though it's still about 1.6GB.

Is there anyway I can reduce the size of the file to something in the region of 10MB?

For what it's worth, I chose the 'Draft' option in the quality settings, but still ended up with 1.6GB.

I'm really interested in reducing my first few shoots to less than 10MB so I can email these etc.

Any feedback would really be appreciated.

Many thanks and regards once again,
Neil

Aaron Koolen · May 8th, 2003, 05:03 AM

Neil, you're probably encoding with the DV codec. Once you've edited a piece, select another codec. For instance, select, say Quicktime then select Custom->Video Tab->Video Format and then select something like sorenson. Then adjust all the values you want to and then render. You'll have a quicktime movie of a much smaller size.

Cheers
Aaron

Rob Lohman · May 8th, 2003, 05:35 AM

10 mb is unrealistic for a movie of over 5 minutes. Unless you want
it poststamp size.

Also most mail servers do not accept anything larger than 4 or
5 megs (in 7 bit, 0,125% overhead).

Aaron is correct in that you are saving in the original file format.
Although DV is compressed it isn't compressed that much.

What you need to do is the following if you really want to get
smaller files:

1. lower your resolution at least 50%

2. lower your framerate to 15 fps or something

3. compress using a high-quality but also high compression codec like QuickTime Sorenson, DiVX/XviD, Windows Media 9 or mpeg1.

Neil McLean · May 8th, 2003, 05:39 AM

Thanks Aaron,

I've managed to get by using TMPEGEnc.

Initially my Vegas project was 2.6GB. This was then rendered to give an avi file which I compressed to 12.5MB. After zipping this, it further reduced the file to about 8.5MB, so I'm quite happy at the moment.

In time I'll take a time out and decide which s/w I want to use.

With this being my first shoot, I'm sure you can appreciate I was eager to show my post production to a few folk.

Kind regards,
Neil

Edward Troxel · May 8th, 2003, 08:55 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Neil McLean : I rendered as an avi file, though it's still about 1.6GB. For what it's worth, I chose the 'Draft' option in the quality settings, but still ended up with 1.6GB.
Neil -->>>

Changing the render quality will not change the file size. NTSC-DV is 13GB / hour whether you do draft, preview, good, or best. Change it back to Good or Best.

To render smaller, you need to render to a more compressed format. Personally, I use WMV for the compressed formats. By reducing the framerate, audio sample rate, and bitrate, you can get fairly small sizes. When compressing for the web, I strive for 1Meg / Min.

May 5th, 2003, 08:31 AM	#1
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	A Newbie to Non-linear Editing on the PC Hello, I have just received my first ever DVCAM (PD150) and was wondering if Studio8 is a fairly good package to begin exploring the world of non-linear editing. I understand that Adobe is so much better, but it might be a tad too much for a newbie. At the moment I don't have a VCR or editing suite, so in the meantime, I'll be learning to edit via firewire. My first project will probably be to edit some miniDV tapes that a friend shoot last summer. Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated. Regards, Neil

May 7th, 2003, 05:55 AM	#8
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	Studio 8 is a very nice consumer level editing package which teaches you the very basics of editing (Capture, Edit, Export). Although if you are planning to do this professionally I would suggest to work with apps like Premiere or Vegas, that way when you do something big you will know how to do it and Premiere/ Vegas give you far more effects etc. If you go for Premiere you can buy it with many hardware options. Premiere on its own costs about £500 where you can get it with the hardware giving you added real-time effects and analogue in/ out for the same price or a bit more. I.e. Pinnacle DV500DVD or MATROX RTX 100 or CANOPUS DV STORM. But be aware most of these are hardware specific i.e. specific CPU, RAM etc. Cheers, Ed __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

May 7th, 2003, 02:37 PM	#10
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	"Studio 8 is a very nice consumer level editing package which teaches you the very basics of editing (Capture, Edit, Export). " It would be very nice if it would only boot up without crashing...save yourself the headache, buy Vegas albeit it is not as easy as Videowave or Studio 8, etc. but once you get the hang of it, it will be like riding a bike or a stick shift car, it all comes without using too much grey matter, do yourself a favor and either invest in the hard copy manual or print out the manual and work with it. Lastly, negative about Vegas...No hot chick in front of the box or a free sample video of the chick getting her picture taken holding a CD. ;P __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

May 8th, 2003, 05:35 AM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	10 mb is unrealistic for a movie of over 5 minutes. Unless you want it poststamp size. Also most mail servers do not accept anything larger than 4 or 5 megs (in 7 bit, 0,125% overhead). Aaron is correct in that you are saving in the original file format. Although DV is compressed it isn't compressed that much. What you need to do is the following if you really want to get smaller files: 1. lower your resolution at least 50% 2. lower your framerate to 15 fps or something 3. compress using a high-quality but also high compression codec like QuickTime Sorenson, DiVX/XviD, Windows Media 9 or mpeg1. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 5th, 2003, 08:55 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I would recommend you try Vegas. Download the demo first and see if it matches your workflow. If you want a very inexpensive version, try Video Factory (much more limited but the same interface as Vegas).

May 5th, 2003, 09:05 AM	#3
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	Neil, First of all, welcome to you. I just read your other post on this site. So, I'll put it all here. There are a lot of people using the PD150 and doing some excellent work. Features/shorts/documentaries etc. Sounds like you are trying to build a studio. I don't know the product you are using for editing. If it works, then it sounds like you have a start. You will probably need a VCR/DVD Burner to output your work, unless you decide to take it to a production house and have them duplicate. I am currently using the Sennheiser ME66/K6 Shotgun microphone. I am very happy with it and the sound quality. I use two Sony ECM-150 lavaliers when needed. Good journey on your current project. Hope this was some help. Cheers! Derrick

May 5th, 2003, 02:16 PM	#4
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	Edward - I'm in the process of d/l the Vegas demo, thanks! Derrick - Thanks for your encouragement and support. For what it's worth, I actually bought my new PD150 from an outlet in New York. Apparently they are the oldest camera store in NY having been established since 1898. The guy I was dealing with Sam, was very, very helpful. He couldn't do enough to ensure all my questions were answered etc. It is my intention to build a studio in time. (Gosh - everything is so expensive... still I guess that's the price you pay for quality eh?) Looks like I can pick up the Sennheiser ME66/K6 Shotgun for about £200 / $300 inc. Since it comes c/w a windsock, would their be anything else I'd need to consider for this mic? For example, I'm assuming it comes with a smallish (12"?) lead to plug straight into the XLR socket. Oh and before I forget, I've had a Pioneer DVD burner for about 18 months now, having just upgraded to their 105. Many thanks and regards once again, Neil

May 5th, 2003, 03:54 PM	#5
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	I am not familiar with the PD150 and its audio inputs. I'll assume it has an XLR jack, for which you'll need a small XLR cable (Which you might be able to talk the person/company to give you one. Its not included.) if you are going to mount it directly to your camera. You might want to consider a boom pole and a 25' XLR cable if you are going to be doing a short. It really gets the mike in where it needs to be. However, if you don't have the extra hands then the camera mount should be fine. You'll need some insulation between the mount on the camera and the mike itself. The buzz of the camera motor has and was a problem with the sound on my XL1S. It may not be the same for the PD150. The rest of the mike, well, a 1.5 AA battery. That'll do it. Some other colleagues on the board have the Pioneer burner. Sounds good. Cheers!

May 5th, 2003, 10:41 PM	#6
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Neil, you'll need a shockmount to assuming you're going to camera mount the ME66 at all . Cheers Aaron

May 7th, 2003, 05:33 AM	#7
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	Thanks for the advice Aaron. I'll keep this in mind. Regards, Neil

May 7th, 2003, 07:24 AM	#9
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Studio 8 is a great package, the best of the lot of entry-level NLEs. It is, however, extremely buggy and giving lots of users lots of trouble. You bought an upscale camcorder. I agree with the advice to buy an NLE a bit more upscale as well. I'm in the Vegas camp.

May 8th, 2003, 03:03 AM	#11
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	I've now got Vegas and just saved my first project. After editing the footage, (it's now about 5 minutes 30 seconds) I rendered as an avi file, though it's still about 1.6GB. Is there anyway I can reduce the size of the file to something in the region of 10MB? For what it's worth, I chose the 'Draft' option in the quality settings, but still ended up with 1.6GB. I'm really interested in reducing my first few shoots to less than 10MB so I can email these etc. Any feedback would really be appreciated. Many thanks and regards once again, Neil

May 8th, 2003, 05:03 AM	#12
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Neil, you're probably encoding with the DV codec. Once you've edited a piece, select another codec. For instance, select, say Quicktime then select Custom->Video Tab->Video Format and then select something like sorenson. Then adjust all the values you want to and then render. You'll have a quicktime movie of a much smaller size. Cheers Aaron

May 8th, 2003, 05:39 AM	#14
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	Thanks Aaron, I've managed to get by using TMPEGEnc. Initially my Vegas project was 2.6GB. This was then rendered to give an avi file which I compressed to 12.5MB. After zipping this, it further reduced the file to about 8.5MB, so I'm quite happy at the moment. In time I'll take a time out and decide which s/w I want to use. With this being my first shoot, I'm sure you can appreciate I was eager to show my post production to a few folk. Kind regards, Neil

May 8th, 2003, 08:55 AM	#15
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Neil McLean : I rendered as an avi file, though it's still about 1.6GB. For what it's worth, I chose the 'Draft' option in the quality settings, but still ended up with 1.6GB. Neil -->>> Changing the render quality will not change the file size. NTSC-DV is 13GB / hour whether you do draft, preview, good, or best. Change it back to Good or Best. To render smaller, you need to render to a more compressed format. Personally, I use WMV for the compressed formats. By reducing the framerate, audio sample rate, and bitrate, you can get fairly small sizes. When compressing for the web, I strive for 1Meg / Min.