Which NLE for previewing on TV. at DVinfo.net

Mike Black · May 4th, 2003, 05:30 PM

Hi,
I am a amateur, but like good quality. I have had Pinacle 7 for 10 months but would like to see the contents of the preview window much bigger on monitor or better yet to see full screen on TV with S-video cable.
I have been looking at varios software/hardware bundles around $500 like the Pinacle DV500DVD with DV500 card or the Matrox RTX.10 but really need advice for the following questions.
(1) Which hardware/software will allow me to see only the preview window full screen on the TV or another monitor while editing?
(2) Which NLE/hardware will give me best quality image for capturing, editing (with good color correction), and rendering to MPEG2?
In other words I am not in a real hurry (real-time) but do need to see image full screen when editing, and have a good quality image all the way.
I am running Pent. 4 1.9Mz with 500MB ram, and Geforce 2-400 64mB mem with TV out but have not been able to use both screens at full resolution for playback?
Thanks for listening,
mike

Stuart Kupinsky · May 4th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Mike I can only comment on the DV500. It has an S-video output on the breakout box that comes with the card. I guess my overall opinion is that, once working, the card and supporting drivers/software work fine. There are some odd quirks though (such as having to feed audio from the card back into the computer for playback when not using separate monitor, etc.) and I have had some issues over the years with the $%&# pinnacle drivers, although they've made it easier with the DV500DVD (the most recent incarnation). Pinnacle's online support covers a lot of issues, but that goes both ways (there are lots of issues).

I haven't used the RTX.10, but would be interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

My last [unsolicited] editorial comment is that I think, depending on what you want to do, acceleration boards are overrated.

Edward Troxel · May 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Vegas will preview on an external monitor using a simple OHCI firewire card. Just connect a camera/deck/convertor via firewire to the computer and via RCA or S-Video to the monitor. Turn on external preview an you will have full screen preview of ALL effects.

Don Donatello · May 4th, 2003, 10:17 PM

you might want to take a look over at the reviews/shoot outs of NLE 's at

www.videoguys.com

Trey Perrone · May 4th, 2003, 11:03 PM

correct me if im wrong...but would it not be better to output thru 1394 thru a deck or cam as the svid outputs on vid cards use various types of compression (dependent on manufacturer) that could actually change the output you see on the tv? ive never used the output svid (cept on laptops) i just run thru my GL1 into a 32 inch sony.

Troxel is a vegas king

Edward Troxel · May 5th, 2003, 08:51 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Trey Perrone : but would it not be better to output thru 1394 thru a deck or cam as the svid outputs on vid cards use various types of compression (dependent on manufacturer) that could actually change the output you see on the tv? -->>>

That's the reason Vegas does it this way instead of supporting the "tv-outs" of various cards. You can see the actual final results.

Mike Black · May 8th, 2003, 09:59 AM

Thank you all for the good information,
I downloaded a demo of Vegas 4 and managed to do just what I wanted, to put the preview window on the TV while editing.
It easy to install, and it really seems that the image quality is better than my Studio 7. I guess I will have to learn how to use the Vegas since the editing is very diferent, and seems not as simple as the Studio 7.
The help does not seem very good, and I gess in the demo they have turned off a lot of things too. The learning curve seems to be rather steep?
What I have not found out is:
Can you import and edit MPEG2 files without decompressing? (MPEG2 inteligent rendering)

Edward Troxel · May 8th, 2003, 12:29 PM

Just start asking questions. We'll get you over the beginning humps.

Actually, very little is turned off in the demo. Things I know for sure:
1. You can't save projects or snapshots
2. You can't render MPEG or MP3
3. You can't Print to Tape over 2 minutes

Most other features are FULLY functional.

You can also download the manual in PDF format - over 300 pages. Plus, you can read my newsletters at http://www.jetdv.com/tts

(P.s. I thought the help file was quite good and thorough)

Don Bloom · May 8th, 2003, 01:16 PM

Mike,
I used StudioDv and then Studio7 for about 31/2 years and managed to make a good living with that software, as long as I knew what I could and could not do with it and stayed within those parameters.
When I decided to get a new editing machine and stepup to a new NLE I tried a bunch of the biggies and decided on Vegas4. All I can say is WOW! I'm very excited about what I can do with the software and the end results that I am able to achieve. Having said that, I have to say I lost about a week just playing with it to learn enough of the basics I needed to feel comfortable enough to edit my weddings on it. Once I did, I managed to edit for 2 weeks straight which for me is a world record and knocked out 4 of the best pieces of work I have ever done. I can get far more creative than ever with less effort and produce the stunning results I never could before. There is of course a learning curve but there are some great forums with some great folks on them, Ed Troxel being one of them, to help us get better and better with the product. I do not regret going to Vegas at all.(the NLE or the city:)
Have fun, try everything, you can't get hurt!

Richard Alvarez · May 8th, 2003, 01:16 PM

"help does not seem very good"...
"seems not as simple as studio 7"
"The learning curve seems to be rather steep"

You hear this about lots of NLE's when you are transitioning. Its why I give very little credence to comments "XYZ is the most intuitive NLE made" (by any manufacturer). It all depends on where you are starting from... what you know, what you have to "unlearn".

Tomas Landin · May 9th, 2003, 02:02 AM

I don't know about 'unlearning' things. I've worked with AVID Xpress DV here in school for two years, went on an internship at a production house for nine weeks where they only used Media 100i, I found that the only thing I really had to get acustomed to was the change in keyboard shortcuts.
Both applications can do the same thing (though Media 100i can output more than DV) and there was no real 'unlearning' involved.

Of course, I don't know if the difference is smaller between AVID and Media 100i than between Vegas and Pinnacle, or Final Cut Pro and Premiere.

From an interface point of view that is.

Mike Black · May 13th, 2003, 10:07 AM

Thank you Don and all for your help, and encouragement.
I downloaded the pdf manual and found that it is very good.
I have been playing around with the trial version and agree that it is really nice once you get aquainted with it. I think I am falling in love with this preduct.
As was said it really seems stable and has never crashed.
The only thing I dont see is something like Title Deko. Can someone suggest how to do this?
Mike

Edward Troxel · May 13th, 2003, 01:13 PM

I will agree that it would be nice to have better titling capabilities. While there is a lot of power buried in the Vegas titling, it could be better. If you have Title Deko, go ahead and use it then import those titles into Vegas. Others use Ulead Cool 3D. If it can create an AVI, PNG, or any other format that allows an alpha channel, it should work just fine.

May 4th, 2003, 05:30 PM	#1
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Which NLE for previewing on TV. Hi, I am a amateur, but like good quality. I have had Pinacle 7 for 10 months but would like to see the contents of the preview window much bigger on monitor or better yet to see full screen on TV with S-video cable. I have been looking at varios software/hardware bundles around $500 like the Pinacle DV500DVD with DV500 card or the Matrox RTX.10 but really need advice for the following questions. (1) Which hardware/software will allow me to see only the preview window full screen on the TV or another monitor while editing? (2) Which NLE/hardware will give me best quality image for capturing, editing (with good color correction), and rendering to MPEG2? In other words I am not in a real hurry (real-time) but do need to see image full screen when editing, and have a good quality image all the way. I am running Pent. 4 1.9Mz with 500MB ram, and Geforce 2-400 64mB mem with TV out but have not been able to use both screens at full resolution for playback? Thanks for listening, mike

May 4th, 2003, 06:03 PM	#2
Stuart Kupinsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 82	Mike I can only comment on the DV500. It has an S-video output on the breakout box that comes with the card. I guess my overall opinion is that, once working, the card and supporting drivers/software work fine. There are some odd quirks though (such as having to feed audio from the card back into the computer for playback when not using separate monitor, etc.) and I have had some issues over the years with the $%&# pinnacle drivers, although they've made it easier with the DV500DVD (the most recent incarnation). Pinnacle's online support covers a lot of issues, but that goes both ways (there are lots of issues). I haven't used the RTX.10, but would be interested in hearing what others have to say about it. My last [unsolicited] editorial comment is that I think, depending on what you want to do, acceleration boards are overrated. __________________ DVX100A/AT4071a/Vegas/After Effects Dual 2GHz Xeon PC

May 4th, 2003, 11:03 PM	#5
Trey Perrone Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 155	correct me if im wrong...but would it not be better to output thru 1394 thru a deck or cam as the svid outputs on vid cards use various types of compression (dependent on manufacturer) that could actually change the output you see on the tv? ive never used the output svid (cept on laptops) i just run thru my GL1 into a 32 inch sony. Troxel is a vegas king __________________ Trey Perrone

May 8th, 2003, 09:59 AM	#7
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Tried Vegas 4 demo. Thank you all for the good information, I downloaded a demo of Vegas 4 and managed to do just what I wanted, to put the preview window on the TV while editing. It easy to install, and it really seems that the image quality is better than my Studio 7. I guess I will have to learn how to use the Vegas since the editing is very diferent, and seems not as simple as the Studio 7. The help does not seem very good, and I gess in the demo they have turned off a lot of things too. The learning curve seems to be rather steep? What I have not found out is: Can you import and edit MPEG2 files without decompressing? (MPEG2 inteligent rendering)

May 13th, 2003, 10:07 AM	#12
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Getting to love V4 Thank you Don and all for your help, and encouragement. I downloaded the pdf manual and found that it is very good. I have been playing around with the trial version and agree that it is really nice once you get aquainted with it. I think I am falling in love with this preduct. As was said it really seems stable and has never crashed. The only thing I dont see is something like Title Deko. Can someone suggest how to do this? Mike

May 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM	#3
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Vegas will preview on an external monitor using a simple OHCI firewire card. Just connect a camera/deck/convertor via firewire to the computer and via RCA or S-Video to the monitor. Turn on external preview an you will have full screen preview of ALL effects.

May 4th, 2003, 10:17 PM	#4
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	you might want to take a look over at the reviews/shoot outs of NLE 's at www.videoguys.com

May 5th, 2003, 08:51 AM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Trey Perrone : but would it not be better to output thru 1394 thru a deck or cam as the svid outputs on vid cards use various types of compression (dependent on manufacturer) that could actually change the output you see on the tv? -->>> That's the reason Vegas does it this way instead of supporting the "tv-outs" of various cards. You can see the actual final results.

May 8th, 2003, 12:29 PM	#8
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Just start asking questions. We'll get you over the beginning humps. Actually, very little is turned off in the demo. Things I know for sure: 1. You can't save projects or snapshots 2. You can't render MPEG or MP3 3. You can't Print to Tape over 2 minutes Most other features are FULLY functional. You can also download the manual in PDF format - over 300 pages. Plus, you can read my newsletters at http://www.jetdv.com/tts (P.s. I thought the help file was quite good and thorough)

May 8th, 2003, 01:16 PM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Mike, I used StudioDv and then Studio7 for about 31/2 years and managed to make a good living with that software, as long as I knew what I could and could not do with it and stayed within those parameters. When I decided to get a new editing machine and stepup to a new NLE I tried a bunch of the biggies and decided on Vegas4. All I can say is WOW! I'm very excited about what I can do with the software and the end results that I am able to achieve. Having said that, I have to say I lost about a week just playing with it to learn enough of the basics I needed to feel comfortable enough to edit my weddings on it. Once I did, I managed to edit for 2 weeks straight which for me is a world record and knocked out 4 of the best pieces of work I have ever done. I can get far more creative than ever with less effort and produce the stunning results I never could before. There is of course a learning curve but there are some great forums with some great folks on them, Ed Troxel being one of them, to help us get better and better with the product. I do not regret going to Vegas at all.(the NLE or the city:) Have fun, try everything, you can't get hurt!

May 8th, 2003, 01:16 PM	#10
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	"help does not seem very good"... "seems not as simple as studio 7" "The learning curve seems to be rather steep" You hear this about lots of NLE's when you are transitioning. Its why I give very little credence to comments "XYZ is the most intuitive NLE made" (by any manufacturer). It all depends on where you are starting from... what you know, what you have to "unlearn".

May 9th, 2003, 02:02 AM	#11
Tomas Landin New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7	I don't know about 'unlearning' things. I've worked with AVID Xpress DV here in school for two years, went on an internship at a production house for nine weeks where they only used Media 100i, I found that the only thing I really had to get acustomed to was the change in keyboard shortcuts. Both applications can do the same thing (though Media 100i can output more than DV) and there was no real 'unlearning' involved. Of course, I don't know if the difference is smaller between AVID and Media 100i than between Vegas and Pinnacle, or Final Cut Pro and Premiere. From an interface point of view that is.

May 13th, 2003, 01:13 PM	#13
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I will agree that it would be nice to have better titling capabilities. While there is a lot of power buried in the Vegas titling, it could be better. If you have Title Deko, go ahead and use it then import those titles into Vegas. Others use Ulead Cool 3D. If it can create an AVI, PNG, or any other format that allows an alpha channel, it should work just fine.